BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Feb 2016, 19:15

You're missing the point. Are you in the market for a 700k single? These new features aren't meant (at least not the bulk of it) to get people to buy a brand new cirrus vs an old bonanza. You have to compare apples to apples. They are competing against new singles from cessna, beech and piper. What is beech trying to do to steal customers from cirrus? Changing its air conditioning? Whoop dee doo.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Feb 2016, 19:17

Username Protected wrote:

Seems like a lot of folks forget about the tax implications of buying a new airplane. While the sticker price may be $700,000, few people will ever shell out the entire $700,000 in cash. It will most likely be spread over 20 years and be a business expense. Then, after about 3-5 years, they will buy another one and get another tax deduction. The after tax actual cash outflow will be less than you think, it should help grow their business, they fly a new airplane, we get to read about all the new gadgets, and it is good for the economy.

All true so long as you remember the merry go round stops eventually and you have to pay to get off. When I sell my plane shortly I get to pay the tax that I didn't pay a couple of years ago or push the snowball further down the road with the next one which I don't want to do.

The after tax cost of operating the plane, however, reduce the costs by a great deal.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Feb 2016, 19:19

Username Protected wrote:

You're missing the point. Are you in the market for a 700k single? These new features aren't meant (at least not the bulk of it) to get people to buy a brand new cirrus vs an old bonanza. You have to compare apples to apples. They are competing against new singles from cessna, beech and piper. What is beech trying to do to steal customers from cirrus? Changing its air conditioning? Whoop dee doo.

Right. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. My brother buys $300 pick ups at auction and drives them til they can't be fixed and buys another. He doesn't care what he drives its just transportation. I spend that much every week because, while it's transportation I want to be transported in a luxury car not some POS. Same with airplanes.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Feb 2016, 20:38

Username Protected wrote:

Seems like a lot of folks forget about the tax implications of buying a new airplane. While the sticker price may be $700,000, few people will ever shell out the entire $700,000 in cash. It will most likely be spread over 20 years and be a business expense. Then, after about 3-5 years, they will buy another one and get another tax deduction. The after tax actual cash outflow will be less than you think, it should help grow their business, they fly a new airplane, we get to read about all the new gadgets, and it is good for the economy.

All true so long as you remember the merry go round stops eventually and you have to pay to get off. When I sell my plane shortly I get to pay the tax that I didn't pay a couple of years ago or push the snowball further down the road with the next one which I don't want to do.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Feb 2016, 21:25

Username Protected wrote:

That's cool and all but wait until that remote key-less entry goes TU and costs $1500 to repair, because after all, it will have to be an "approved part". I bet the key fob will cost $500.

Gee wiz technology comes at too high of a price in certified GA.

So, if you were a new airplane designer right now, instead of putting in gee wiz technology that customers want and are willing to pay for, what would you put in instead and how do you know the customers would buy it? Just curious.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Feb 2016, 21:28

Username Protected wrote:

You had that money in your pocket for the duration of ownership and you only pay recapture on a part of the proceeds. Overall still a good deal albeit not quite the 'free money' airplane salesmen advertise.

Yes, that's correct and then there is the leverage of time value of money which helps a little too. I'm not complaining...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Feb 2016, 23:06

What propulsion options are available except the old engine?
Cirrus innovated where possible, prop control, engine monitors....

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Feb 2016, 12:01

I wish they would just pop a diesel engine in the existing airframe. I feel like that would be relatively easy and pretty good innovation, but of course the FAA would make the certification costs and time so incredibly high it wouldnt be worth it. The FAA directly stands in the way of all innovation. Cirrus is at least doing as much as they can with the hand that has been given them.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Feb 2016, 12:06

Lots of people are working on diesels. The problems seem to be real technical hurdles and not purely regulatory.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Feb 2016, 12:30

I sure like my 8 year old promo. And it is - I've never gotten more lookers, questions, and comments than in this. A tower was asking me about the chute on roll out last month.

Attachment:

IMG_8834.JPG

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Feb 2016, 14:10

Username Protected wrote:

I sure like my 8 year old promo. And it is - I've never gotten more lookers, questions, and comments than in this. A tower was asking me about the chute on roll out last month.

Attachment:

IMG_8834.JPG

beautiful shot, love it!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Feb 2016, 14:14

You had that money in your pocket for the duration of ownership and you only pay recapture on a part of the proceeds. Overall still a good deal albeit not quite the 'free money' airplane salesmen advertise.[/quote]

Just curious, what airplane companies/salesmen advertise that airplane ownership can be like "free money"? I don't recall seeing that ad.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Feb 2016, 14:29

Username Protected wrote:

Just curious, what airplane companies/salesmen advertise that airplane ownership can be like "free money"? I don't recall seeing that ad.

Back when bonus depreciation was around (2007-2010), none of the pro-formas I saw handed out by the manufacturers ever mentioned recapture. They were all very heavy on the first year tax benefit and didn't calculate the tax situation on a 5 year timeframe to include disposal of the asset (of course, no tax adviser would ever look at it that way, but for the initial sales-pitch, I never saw the word 'recapture' anywhere).

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Feb 2016, 14:56

I wonder how many people in Cirrus's market are going to replace airplanes frequently like they do their cars? If so, the manufacturer doesn't have a lot of reason to worry about these things breaking on the planes. The second or third owner gets to worry about it, and Cirrus makes money on the parts.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Feb 2016, 15:18

Mine is an '08 with 2,300 hours with the Perspective (G1000).

In two years and 300 hours, it is very dependable and solid. Can't think of a squawk this last year, although, as with most, there were a few the first year of ownership.

New 2016 Cirrus promo