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10 Jun 2025, 03:23 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Allen Wolpert's Magic Carpet
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2016, 15:16 
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Location: Northern NJ
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Username Protected wrote:
It helps having engines close to the center line.

The systems designed to help with the rudder, do fail.

On the larger turbofan wing mounted engines, if the rudder assist fails and the engine seizes.

You have your hands full. Lots of drag and no help with directional control.

Two pilots helps tremendously.


I didn't realize this thread had moved into discussing wing mounted turbofan aircraft. A reasonable assumption is this thread topic is about Cessna Citations.

Two pilots help tremendously if they practice good CRM. Unfortunately there have been incidents where two pilots just added to the confusion and one pilot might have better sorted the situation out.

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 Post subject: Re: Allen Wolpert's Magic Carpet
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2016, 15:22 
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
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Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
Username Protected wrote:
How about system lost, How about pressurization lost with only 1 pack, how about over water with 1 engine, how about lost of a generator on that engine, lost of redundant system...

The remaining engine maintains pressurization, electrical generation, and propulsion.

A multiengine jet has all of the benefits of being multiengine (redundant propulsion, systems) with little to none of the negatives of prop planes (large asymmetric thrust, high Vmc, demanding engine out drill, possible feathering of the wrong one).

In comparison, that is trivial.

When is the last time you heard of a jet having a Vmc roll over? Think about it.


Mike C.


Sorry to take focus off citation.

I was responding to this type of comment found in this thread.

Of course the two pilot airplane requires that they are trained.

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 Post subject: Re: Allen Wolpert's Magic Carpet
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2016, 20:33 
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Joined: 01/09/13
Posts: 1249
Post Likes: +246
Location: Frederick , MD (KHGR)
Aircraft: C421 B36TC 58P
Username Protected wrote:
How about system lost, How about pressurization lost with only 1 pack, how about over water with 1 engine, how about lost of a generator on that engine, lost of redundant system...

The remaining engine maintains pressurization, electrical generation, and propulsion.

A multiengine jet has all of the benefits of being multiengine (redundant propulsion, systems) with little to none of the negatives of prop planes (large asymmetric thrust, high Vmc, demanding engine out drill, possible feathering of the wrong one).

In comparison, that is trivial.

When is the last time you heard of a jet having a Vmc roll over? Think about it.

Mike C.




Mike - Engine failure is very manageable as we sit on the couch but I've seen many many folks in the simulator while giving check rides screw it up for over thinking and neglecting not to fly the plane. A rudder bias system is great but it's an aide to help the pilot. Many jets can't maintain FL450 or some restriction on pressurization so a decent is necessary.. Additionally, an engine failure can lead to further issues making problems. I do think engine failure is a serious problem but agree it's highly highly unlikely and have not had 1 or any serious issue in 30 years flying 50 different planes jets include they are very reliable.

Finally, engine failures can lead to auto brake failure, Thrust reverse failure, auto pilot inop... just an array of issues that unfourtunatly we as pilots will screw up do to the heat of the moment.....
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Good Luck,

Tim
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 Post subject: Re: Allen Wolpert's Magic Carpet
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2016, 10:09 
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Joined: 10/31/14
Posts: 550
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Aircraft: eclipse
On the subject of twin jet engine failures this is what happens in an Eclipse.

First of all Vmc is lower that stall speed so you will lose the wing before the rudder also one engine will provide all the pressurization you need.

On engine failure the avionics "Avio" will automatically reconfigure the pressurization system,electrical system for the operating engine, do any electrical load shed that's required and when the fuel load in one wing is more than 50 higher than the other transfer fuel to even the load. All part of an airplane designed for single pilot from its concept.

Now if I could afford a CJ I think I would buy a house in Nantucket :peace:


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