BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 20:37

Username Protected wrote:

I remember the same arguments when I first started flying in 2007 regarding the SR22. Now Beech is out of Business.

Steve, how many new generation of planes need to be sold before you'll come around? I'm pretty sure more people died in Phenoms and Premiers last year than died in SR22's and there are a lot more SR22's flying.

I like the SR22!

Its the jet that is underwhelming.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 21:47

Username Protected wrote:

Did you watch the video of the man flying it? What's not to like?

Range, speed, payload.

There's a reason no one else has done this before ... Cirrus is not some team of technical wizards that can do something Gulfstream, Cessna, Beech, Lear, Piper and Diamond cannot. What they have hit upon is a series of non-technical advances that make people want to buy a technically inferior airplane. I hope they succeed; I don't think they're evil; I don't think they suck. But the airplane is likely to be ho-hum. They're selling a tangible dream. They're selling the ability for a 32 year old tech wizard to get his license in an SR20, buy an SR22 to get his instrument, fly for 3 years and be in a jet before he's middle aged.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 21:56

Username Protected wrote:

They're selling the ability for a 32 year old tech wizard to get his license in an SR20, buy an SR22 to get his instrument, fly for 3 years and be in a jet before he's middle aged.

Cessna marketing must be looking forward to Cirrus having the starter jet. Some, if not many SF50 owners will likely want more capabilities after a year or two in the low FL's fighting the weather going slow.

I have seen many Mustang owners moving up to the M2 and CJ3+. Also Phenom 100 owners moving up to various Citation models. These entry turbojets give a taste and many then want more.

There will be Mustangs available for SF50 owners who want to get higher and faster and have the real safety of two turbojet engines. It should be an easy transition for someone SF50 typed.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:10

Username Protected wrote:

They're selling the ability for a 32 year old tech wizard to get his license in an SR20, buy an SR22 to get his instrument, fly for 3 years and be in a jet before he's middle aged.

So, this is essentially me. Except I went 182, 340, MU2. Because as a "tech wizard" (your term not mine) I know ultimately performance wins in the long term. If you get the marketing right but not the product, you may have glory for the short term but usually eventually flame out.

That said, if the SR22 had been available at the time I started flying I may have had one instead of the 182. I'm not averse to new stuff. It just needs to add value relative to existing stuff.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:12

Username Protected wrote:

Did you watch the video of the man flying it? What's not to like?

Range, speed, payload.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:13

Username Protected wrote:

Range, speed, payload.

What's better for $2.2MM?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:18

Username Protected wrote:

Hardly - I said they're a proven company using a proven technology. Marketing doesnt sell a technically incapable/incompetent product. But marketing matters - and I use this term broadly in the sense of meeting the real psychological needs of individual owners that may not be performance based. Cirrus is very good at marketing.

What piston plane produced right now is better than a Cirrus? Cirrus isn't tricking folks into buying. It actually is the best piston plane being built right now. What option does one have?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:18

Username Protected wrote:

Slightly used Mustang.

I agree but that's not new.

You gotta compare new to new.

Mustang is a great buy but there are plenty on the market so it's not like everyone is buying them up.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:24

Username Protected wrote:

They're selling the ability for a 32 year old tech wizard to get his license in an SR20, buy an SR22 to get his instrument, fly for 3 years and be in a jet before he's middle aged.

Cessna marketing must be looking forward to Cirrus having the starter jet. Some, if not many SF50 owners will likely want more capabilities after a year or two in the low FL's fighting the weather going slow.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:25

Username Protected wrote:

Slightly used Mustang.

I agree but that's not new.

You gotta compare new to new.

Mustang is a great buy but there are plenty on the market so it's not like everyone is buying them up.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:29

Username Protected wrote:

They are already loving cirrus. Many of their mustang sales to owner operators must have involved prior cirrus owners.

I would say prior TBM owners are the majority of the Mustang owners I know of. Then a good representation of Malibu/Mirage, Cirrus, and a few Bonanza owners.

Twin turboprop owners seem to move up to CJ's or 560s.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:31

Username Protected wrote:

Few folks care if it is new vs. pre-owned. You couldn't tell the difference on most other then the hours on the hobbs meter.

If true, nobody would be selling new planes.

A new PC12 is a lot more than my 2008 model and it's pretty much the same exact airplane. Why buy new? Pilatus sells every one they manufacture every year.

It's important to a lot of people.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2015, 22:40

Username Protected wrote:

If true, nobody would be selling new planes.

A new PC12 is a lot more than my 2008 model and it's pretty much the same exact airplane. Why buy new? Pilatus sells every one they manufacture every year.

It's important to a lot of people.

If false, there would be lots of used planes that no one wanted. A healthy used plane market is important for folks to be able to upgrade their ride. Many more used planes are sold every year then new.

Cessna has sold maybe 12 new Mustangs this year. Partly because anyone wanting a Mustang can find an almost identical plane used for less.

Buying new can give tax benefits that are valuable to business buyers.

PC12 market is growing due to growth in charter operations and its unique market niche. We will see what happens if it gets competition from a Textron SETP.