What is true doesn't depend on who speaks it.

Mike C.

I didn't have any deal breaking bad experiences but I think most Eclipse owners have; especially those with older Eclipses.

Here was my only 2 weird things that occurred.

1) Windshields: my bird had 100 hour windshields and they needed to be replaced to a later style. I got charged $50K for used windshields including install. The used windshields were pretty ratty compared to what I took out; oh well. However, upon asking to return the old windshields (which have totally different spacing and could never be used again) they drilled 1 inch holes in the middle of the glass. Totally ruined my simulator build!

2) Company got real paranoid about me installing a new fuel probe. Demanded log book entries and the non-rebuildable core back. VERY odd behavior. Double checked that the serial numbers on the plane and probe matched. I felt like big brother was watching!
-----

3) Oddest thing I heard was from a guy with an UNDER WARRANTY standby probe that failed in Florida. The Eclipse shop couldn't replace it for a month or so. The guy took off (pretty stupid but it was a back up third probe). Eclipse called the tower in the Dominican Republic and 1) would not ship him a new under warranty probe to install by his mechanic unless he paid them $35,000 to install with imported Eclipse mechanics. 2) Would not let him leave (had the FBO park a fuel truck in front of his plane. I guarantee there is more to the story than this but that's the gist of it.

I wish I had made up #3 but that's a true story.

4) Eclipse has blacklisted most of the private FBOs that work on Eclipses like VNE Jet and University Air Center making it impossible to use a non-Eclipse owned/contracted facility for heavy maintenance. This is how you end up with huge bills for 24/48 month inspections. The company has actually sued mechanics for working on Eclipses so it is almost impossible to find someone to work on them!

When I look at the performance potential of the plane and the operating expenses as reported by owners together with the relatively low cost of entry it is a very tempting airplane for me. For a fully functional airplane (capable of all kinds of coupled approaches) it looks like low time nice examples can be had for $1.5million or less. Perhaps as low as $1 million. It can even live in a T hangar! This is just about irresistible!

And, over on the COPA website there is a small group of dedicated Eclipse enthusiasts who love their airplanes and think they are superior to anything else near it in size. They back up their beliefs with data, stories of dispatch reliability and convincing arguments in comparisons with the Mustang and high performance turbo props like the TBM.

They seem completely oblivious to the kinds of things Michael reports here (and Theodore wrote about earlier). Which is, frankly, weird.

Aviation is a small community and I don't see how any company can prosper ultimately by screwing over (or at least appearing to screw over) its customers on a regular basis. I guess a huge order from the Chinese (which they have just secured) may keep them going financially but who wants to buy into a product with this kind of support? Yes a Mustang costs a little more but then you get world class support and much less concern about future value.

There are two sides to every story but so far I have only heard the credibly negative. I wish there were a believable counter argument but if there is the company with the most to lose hasn't been making it publicly.

Mike,
Here is the rest of the story about the guy down in DR as related to me by the BOCA guys.

They extend me credit so I don't have to pay when I pick up my airplane.

I asked if they have ever got screwed by this policy and they told me yes the guy you reference in your post.
I told them that sucked since that can have an effect on the rest of us.

He then told me that I wouldn't believe the rest of the story.
The guy's airplane was ramp checked by the FAA in NY and deemed by them not to be airworthy. And tagged it as so.
He then flew the airplane to BOCA asked them to do an inspection and they red tagged the airplane as not airworthy.
They came in Monday and the tag was on the ground and the airplane was gone.

As you could imagine the FAA was not amused and tracked the airplane to the DR and notified the authorities where they don't have a problem impounding airplanes.

As you could understand since this guy had already ripped off BOCA and Eclipse they didn't leap to his aid.

Tony,
I agree with your post and it's frankly it's why I post. The old Eclipse made a huge mess in the community. New Eclipse had to resurrect the company and made some hard choices but produced results. It's my perception that since Alan K has taken over he fully appreciates your point and is working hard to correct the some of the policies of the company that gave customers heart burn.

Finally I was where you are had a turbo Mooney I love Mooney's but I wanted more speed. Really liked the Aerostars didn't like the accident statistics. The Eclipse is both fast and safe.

Pulled up to my hangar and saw this.
Talked with the pilot a bit. Eric White, has an RV6 here, just came back from Europe in the 550, off to more air shows tomorrow. Both the pilot and plane are very impressive.

Oh, and he said it'll fit in my hangar and only costs as much as a Baron to operate!

I believe it'll fit in your hangar.

Thought this post was interesting and I wanted to share

Subtitle: Fly a new Jet for only a little more than a Cirrus.

The below is rather long, but I hope it is useful for folks thinking about moving up from their Cirrus to a turbine. Our experience was in buying a used 2007 Eclipse, flying it 7 months, being satisfied it was the right decision, and then purchasing a new Eclipse 550.

3 of my Favorite sayings are:

1. Someday, you will run out of somedays.
2. You’ll only be another year older when you do.
3. Life is not a Dress Rehearsal

We are all looking for the perfect plane.

And the Cirrus is certainly one of those perfect planes. It does everything well to great.

I have owned three Cirrus’s: a G2 (new from factory); a G3 (1 year old used), and a G5 (new from factory). Every one of these was a pleasure to own and fly. Great ownership experiences all.

There are several steps up for when the speed or weather capabilities start mattering: Single turbines such as the TBM and light jets such as the Eclipse, Mustang, or upcoming SF50.

I purchased a new TBM 850 in 2007. Fast, mission ready, and gets above most weather. Owned it 5 years. And it was a great ownership experience.

My missions started changing as our business expanded. And I started wanting more speed (who doesn’t?); but more importantly, I wanted more weather capability that is provided by being able to go around or over the top of most weather - or to quickly climb through it as required - which a light jet provides.

RESEARCH AND STUDY:

I spent a little more than 6 months studying the various options for a light jet. I looked at the Mustang and the Eclipse. Both are great aircraft for owner flown, light load, under 800 nm missions.

The Mustang has several advantages, and is a larger ramp presence aircraft. However, with that size, you go 15% slower on about 20% more fuel in the Mustang - both without hauling any more passengers or their stuff any additional distance.

The Eclipse has the advantages of 1, more sophisticated systems that make it easier to manage and fly as a pilot; and 2, it is substantially less expensive per nm to operate.

The difference to me came down to the substantially lower direct operating cost of the Eclipse.

Why?: I do not think twice about just getting in the Eclipse and going where I need to go, when I need to go. Even if it is just me in the aircraft.

PURCHASE AND DELIVERY:

Decided on the Eclipse in March of 2015. I purchased from Justin Beitler at TAS Aircraft sales a used Eclipse. Had it upgraded with Justin’s assistance to the latest specs and with every upgrade (time from start of search to delivery of upgraded aircraft: 10 weeks).

I would use Justin again and recommend him for this sort of process.

Financed through Air Fleet Capital. Fair rates and 5 business days from application to closing. Highly recommend them.

TYPE RATING:

Used the aircraft for in-aircraft type rating with Norton Aviation. Would use them again.

The cost of an in-aircraft type rating is more than simtraining to a type rating. My guess isabout $5,000 more to get a type rating in the aircraft - than using the sim. There are advantages to both types of ways to get the rating.

I would recommend using Sim-Com for a recurrent / additional touch-up after the type rating done in the aircraft - if the aircraft is upgraded to the latest systems. And use Sim-Com for the initial if the aircraft is an older systems version; then use Norton for mentor training.

Time to get a type rating seems to require about 10 days.

Most difficult part was the first 2 days - getting used to the FMS system. And how it interrelated to the auto-pilot and aircraft management functions. After those 2 days, the next few days were rather fun, if intense days.

My guess is anyone with at least 400 total hours of flying and 75 hours of IFR time would easily be able to complete the type rating. The IFR time being the more critical of the 2. I think the type rating is one of those “rites of passage” you go through in life, that you realize was truly great once you are on the other side of it.

OPERATIONS:

Jets are simply time machines. They have 2 real values to me:

1. What is the business value and personal value of being able to go to 2 far flung sites / meetings - and yet still be home for dinner? What do you live your life for?

2. What is the value of simply jumping in the aircraft to go have a face to face, person to person meeting, all determined at the last minute, to solve issues which have arisen, that only you can solve? And averting the crisis’s and drama’s that otherwise might have occurred?

While I am sure I am somewhat justifying the purchase, there is seldom a month that goes by that I do not think a single flight mission fully paid for the aircraft cost for that month.

MAINTENANCE and SUPPORT

Maintenance is the 1 area of ownership experience where turbines outshine the Cirrus experience. Instead of a somewhat disjointed groupings of shops with hugely varying degrees of competency - turbine shops that specialize in their specific machines are generally top notch.

My maintenance experience with the Eclipse(s) are very much like my TBM experience. Few shops, but extremely dedicated specific support of that machine. Very business oriented.

Factory support was great with my 2007 used Eclipse. And is great with my new 550.

Parts pricing is not an issue with my new 550, of course. But part prices also seemed very much in line with industry norms with my used Eclipse. Any of these sophisticated and expensive machines will cost to maintain. Only purchase one once you understand you are still maintaining (even if used) a $3 million plus machine. The Eclipse is less expensive to maintain than the Mustang and the TBM about equal percentage wise to the retail price differences between them.

SALE of OLD PLANE:

I sold it through the Eclipse factory sales team. It was sold in less than 10 days from being offered.

Time on market is a function of price and having aready-to-go, well-maintained aircraft. From what I can see the market for Eclipses is slower than the market for a Mustang. But actually not that much different for Eclipses with the latest systems updates.

PURCHASE OF ECLIPSE #2:

Decided to purchase a new Eclipse 550. While this might seem expensive, on an after-tax and after maintenance basis, it is not that much more than owning used.

I also took the time to evaluate the M2 from Cessna during this time. The M2 is another class up from the Eclipse in speed, load capability, and range. If my trips required using a pro-pilot and /or regularly carrying 3 or more passengers - the M2 is the way to go.

I took delivery of Serial # 550-1002 from Eclipse in late December. It is the first airframe they manufactured from the “ground up” - as opposed to just completing airframes started by the old company back in 2008.

Eclipse did a great job in having the aircraft mission ready on day 1. With the interior and pain tand options that I specified.

Again, I financed with Air Fleet Capital. This time it was 3 business days from application to ready to close. And with new, a truly great rate.

Why new? What are the advantages?:

· 5 year warranty and maintenance: Means my out-of-pocket hourly cost is onlyabout thrice that of a Cirrus. And with the speed being double - the effective cost per nm is only about half again more than flying a Cirrus. (above the weather, with pressurization, safer is priceless).

· Tax Deductions: New provides some tax deductions that effectively mean your aircraft is subsidized (assuming it is for business use).

· New systems: 100% mission ready has a value. It used to be that new aircraft would have some teething issues. My Cirrus’s did not. My Baron did not. My TBM did not. And my Eclipse has not had any either. The state of manufacturing today is such that most aircraft are probably delivered in a ready to go state and stay in that state for the initial years of ownership.


And like everyone I know who has an Eclipse, a Mustang, a TBM, or a Pilatus - there is nothing like that feeling when the turbine begins to sing its’ start-up song.

Don’t wait to hear it; you will just be another year older; and worse, someday you will run out of somedays. Have fun flying!

Andy,

Thanks for this post. Loved reading it.

Never flown in an Eclipse but have examined one up close and worry about how you could load 4 guys and clubs/skis. You take out the 5th and 6th seat?

I am familiar with the Mustang and it has alot more room-especially for the clubs in exterior storage, leaving the two guys in back more room and comfort.

I am not a CPA but there is still a considerable difference between the tax savings
offerd by the new Eclipse v. the used Mustang at around 1.5m.

Did your decision pivot on the cost per nm? Also, hard to imagine a better system/autopilot than g1k and gfc700 that you flew behind in the TBM. How would you compare these two vastly different systems?

Finally, let's see some pics!

Not too many of those, only 5 EA550s with the 550-1xxx serial numbers listed on the registry and three of them are still registered to Eclipse.

You say yours was the first totally new one, but N550F, 550-1001 got an airworthiness certificate 10 months before yours in Feb 2015, then looks like it left the country in April 2015.

You probably have the only totally new built EA550 in the US in customer hands.


Tax deductions for depreciation and use apply to used aircraft as well.

Bonus depreciation only applies to new aircraft, but ultimately you get less benefit in later years, so it helps a little with time value of money, but not a whole lot, given aircraft are 5 year property.

Mike C.

Andy - GREAT post. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Andy - thanks for great and candid owners report. So much nebulous information about owning airplanes around, so it's refreshing when someone is straight up with numbers etc.

I believe Andy's post is a copy of a different pilot's experience. Andy has had his Eclipse since purchasing it new in 2007 IIRC. Andy is an terrific and knowledgeable ambassador for Eclipse!

This was a great post and certainly (absent the Eclipse specific discussion) vocalizes some of the feelings I have for the Mustang.