I remember attending the Eclipse owner meeting at Oshkosh in 2008 prior to them going under. Lots of upset owners with the first generation jets with a lot of things missing that they were supposed to get. John Travolta was there kissing babies and saying nice things. The Eclipse owners were driving around leased Range Rovers while every other aviation company employees were in Fords.

My uncle's flight department ran one for a while too. He liked the jet but parts were hard and expensive to get. They sold it and now they run Phenoms.

This summer my wife and I landed in Alburqurque and we saw the big Eclipse or One Aviation hangar looking lifeless. I think it's just a matter or time before that sets sail too. The light jet market didn't materialize and the single engine turbo prop is already saturated to let in another IMO.

What a shame. It was a cool concept but with no market and mediocre leadership, this is what you get.

Mike,
I think you are being unfair.

You bought the crudest avionics eclipse and then are surprised that it's crude?

Even so you had 3 artificial horizons did all 3 fail?

IMHO Eclipse has done great work on the pitot system to prevent the issues that you refer to.

Their is a guy who flies out of New Orleans that had las I recall 6 static system failures

Since he did the latest service bulletin from what I read he has had none.

They have come a long way with this bird and they aren't done.

Are you kidding?

that sounds like my dad. He used to tell us we don't need a new tractor because the old oliver will pull just as much as a new one, when it's running.

Hi Andy,

I'm not an Eclipse hater, I absolutely adored my Eclipse and making the decision to chop her up was a business/economic decision. I have been treated with nothing but kindness by Eclipse and Boca also; not a a bad thing to say at all! I want them to sell LOTS of new airplanes also as this is good for everyone! Absolutely the best airplane I've ever owned despite any near death experiences...I never said airplane drugs are healthy right?

But, I am going to disagree with you on a few points based on my experience flying all iterations of the Eclipse including the pre-ETT 1.0, the 1.0, the 1.3, 1.5, 1.7 and the IFMS. I have a significant amount of time in all versions.

Please see the picture below (I wish I could upload the video but can't), this was on a recent flight in a 1.7 cruising in VFR on a sunny day straight and level at 10,000 feet and 200 kts. I've had something similar happen in all versions of the plane in various modes of flight. It has nothing to do with the iteration version of the airplane, the SB compliance, software, etc. The system traps moisture and it gets stuck in there and freezes. It's hard to get the moisture out!

It's REALLY scary no matter how many attitude indicators you have and the aural alarms including STALL, STALL STALL, and OVERSPEED OVERSPEED OVERSPEED will scare even the most experienced pilot. What really scares you Andy is the fact the autopilot and yaw damper kicks off and you cannot communicate with ATC anymore. Have you tried hand flying at FL410 yet; it's virtually impossible! So, it has nothing to do with the number of attitude indicators!

"Since he did the latest service bulletin from what I read he has had none." Unfortunately, this is not a true statement although I wish it was! What I described has happened dozens of published times on updated planes and probably 100s of unpublished times.

It will happen to you eventually, I guarantee it. Please be safe and prepared as it is very distracting. It scares the entire cabin also so include "this is a very talkative airplane" in your passenger briefing. Drain your static system religiously.

With regards to the "crudity" of the avionics in my plane, they really were NOT that bad. I had Garmin 400W with ADSB and a bluetooth device (flightstream) enabling the i-pad to work as a touch screen FMS with the Garmin which cross linked to a 796. Data flowed both ways.

In reality, I actually liked my system better than the IFMS because it allowed complicated routings to be touch screened into the Ipad and then magically sent to the Garmin 400W; a whole lot easier than the IFMS entry.

Regardless, they really need to start over with Garmin as IS&S does not have the resources to keep up with Garmin.

Once again, I absolutely loved my Eclipse but she had her moments.

Be Safe!

Mike

> replacing the entire avionics is at least 51% of the time required to build the entire aircraft

You misunderstand that 51% rule for E-AB. It is 51% of the tasks; not, 51% of the labor time.

Mike
Thanks for your reply

I have experienced the pitot failure you refer to.

Once and it turned out to be a bad pitot heater.

There is a procedure to shut up the false stall warning and with most of these events it clears at lower altitudes.

I agree not a fun event.


They now check the probes every 24 months too make sure they are functioning properly.

I suspect that you don't know the work eclipse has put into this problem.

They buried thermocouples in the probe and found out as I recall in the 20's the heater couldn't keep up and mostuire froze in the pitot resulting in what you describe on decent

The fix was to increase the amount of time the heater was on and thermally isolate the probe from the airframe that is acting like a great heat sink. They proved with the thermocouples that this did the trick assuming the pitot heater is functional

After my airplane had this done the probes now make steam when they get wet it's impressive to see.

Now the part I don't get AFAIK only half the fleet has done this mod.

I have even heard folks I respect saying not to do it.

When this failure happens how many of the 3 attitude indicators fail?

How would a failure of the pitot system effect the radio it didn't when I was 1.3 and it happened to me?

Great tale, Mike.

Thanks for posting.

Send to AOPA for "I learned about flying from that".



Jim

A very common error by people that have never really done anything with airplanes except fly them is to suggest that an FAA certified airplane can have unrestricted use by putting it in experimental (EX) category. There is a difference between "home built" and certified aircraft and the 51% rule has nothing to do with any of that. If that is done there will be limitations regarding the area it can operate in, weather condition limits, who can be onboard the airplane (only necessary crew), and a calendar limit on the length of time in experimental category plus other limitations. Usually type certificated airplanes are in EX to get approval of some STC modification and carry the limitations of above and are not approved for normal use of transportation.

Regards, Lew Gage

You mean they finally came out with an SB to correct a HORRIBLE design which never should have been certified in the first place? The original static system was downright dangerous. The SB mod should be an AD. And they haven't fixed these issues completely. The pitot/aoa probes are garbage- complete trash, something else is so bad it is dangerous. That's what happens when you go with the lowest bidder on everything. The last I knew, Eclipse was working on finding a new manufacturer because they were so frustrated with not being able to repair people's jets. You replace a bad probe with a new, but also bad probe, well owners aren't happy about that.

It HAS come a long way though. They are very proud of that fact ... just look at the price of a new one! ($3m)

So how about registering that Eclipse in some God-forsaken country where they don't give a damn about what you do to your airplane as long as you pay off the right people? You know, like all those ships registered in Liberia?

Michael, I'm a bit confused by your affection towards an aircraft so prone towards trying to kill you.

My understanding is that two out of three of nation of registry, nation of pilot's cert, and nation you're flying in have to match.

So, you'd need to get a Liberian pilot's cert and keep that up as well, assuming they are part of ICAO and the FAA recognizes and reciprocates. If they start letting you get away with doing things unsafe in the FAA's eyes, I imagine that loophole would close.

Lots of us have had similar relationships with women. Kind of hard to explain isn't it.

The eclipse would presumably make a GREAT experimental exhibition airplane for airshow work. Gut the thing and put in avionics for Day VFR only. A 2-3 ship Eclipse airshow act would get attention. Exp-Exh is pretty liberal - much more so than Exp-AB