Got it.

Thanks Hilgard.

Shannon

I believe what Dan meant is that the geared engine on the 421 won't start on the ground if the prop is in the feathered position, they will start fine in the air due to the airflow that windmills the prop once you start cranking.

Hilgard

I don't remember seeing accumulators on any of the Twin Cessna's that I have worked on, or flown. It's been awhile since I've shut down an engine inflight on them, but I have shutdown the 310R, 402B, 402C, 404, 414 and 421, I just don't remember at the moment..

Jason

I was indeed discussing the difficulty of a starting a GTSIO on the ground with the prop in feather.

I have never tried a re-start in the air. My 421 had accumulators when I bought the plane. I removed them to reduce weight and to remove the additional failure points from the plumbing. Other than training, I can't imagine a scenario where I would want to re-start an engine after it has been shutdown (unless I feather the wrong one).

The conversation above is from another thread. I'm moving it here, because it doesn't belong there

I am a 300 hour IFR private pilot, with most of that time in my V35 Bonanza flying up and down the west coast. I fly a little shy of 100 hours per year.

My expenses on the Bo have been awful. I've installed GAMIs, a JPI 900, a new SS prop (I discovered hub corrosion -- unreported in the prebuy -- when trying to fix a chipped blade), gear and flap motor overhauled, mags overhauled, new mag harnesses, completely rebuilt gear. You name it, I've spent money on it. I know I made mistakes with this purchase. Live and learn.

My problem is that these expenses are just the beginning. I expect to have an engine overhaul coming up in the next few years, the interior is original from 1967 and that'll need to be redone, and the leading edges need paint. I really do need TN to operate anywhere near gross from Truckee, Sierraville, etc. That's another 50k. Oh yeah, don't forget the ADSB upgrade, too.

Rather than continuing to sink money into the bo, I'm wondering if I could keep spending at my current levels (or less!) and get far more capability. Hence, my interest in Aerostars. It's not that I don't want to spend the money. It's that I don't want to spend the money on a plane that doesn't meet my needs. Those needs include:

* Wife wants a chute or a twin.
* Ability to climb out of weather and turbulence as quickly as possible.
* Good speed with reasonable economy.
* 800 lbs payload and a 700nm range with reserves.
* Good high density altitude ops. I'd like to take off from KTRK in the summer without pushing the envelope.
* My poor old dog would really appreciate air conditioning. It's brutally hot in the Bo, especially down low in the summer! And as much as he'd like to, he can't stick his head out the window

I'd be very interested to read responses from current or past Aerostar owners. Do I need more hours before even thinking about this transition? Am I jumping from the expense frying pan and into the fire? Would the 601P meet these needs, or do I need to look into the higher horsepower options?

I think 300 hrs is enough. I came to Aerostars with 500hrs, granted I had 350hrs of twin time before, but on a very simple twin. I think it's a honest and easy plane to fly. Safe single engine capabilities.

In my sales thread I posted copy of my annual from a month ago. It cost $6800 plus an overhauled hydraulic pump. This might not be a typical annual, but it isn't atypical either. In the 80hrs before that I changed a tach and MLG tires, that was it. The first annual was $13K. Since then I've overhauled engine and done all the mechanical work, so I doubt the new owner will have any major back breaking expenses for the first 5-10 years of ownership. I think Aerostars are about $10-20K/year planes mechanically to keep, not counting any upgrades, reserve funds or fuel etc.

If you want good high single engine ceilings and great performance in mountains, you should look at 700's/Superstars. Single engine ceiling is an impressive 16000ft and they climb like turbines. They will burn more fuel. If you mainly looking for fuel economy, or overall economy, then look at 601P's. Still good performer.

Josh,

I would think that 300 hours is a little on the low side but don't let that stop you. Everybody is different. Just commit to getting proper transition training and enough time with an experienced mentor pilot and you'll be OK.

As for operating costs more than a Bonanza less than a King Air Find a good Aerostar that flys regularly. Bottom feeding when acquiring an Aerostar will in all likelihood be an expensive lesson.

Glenn

I've read your for sale thread, Adam, and I'm very impressed that your 601P can go 200-ish knots on 25 GPH. I get the impression that the low compression 602's and 700's can't fly LOP, or perhaps not lean enough to achieve 25-ish GPH. Is that correct?

Thanks Glenn, I'll be very careful this time around!

Thanks Glenn, I'll be very careful this time around!

I've read your for sale thread, Adam, and I'm very impressed that your 601P can go 200-ish knots on 25 GPH. I get the impression that the low compression 602's and 700's can't fly LOP, or perhaps not lean enough to achieve 25-ish GPH. Is that correct?

Josh,

Here's what you do (in no particular order):

1. Get signed up at the Aerostar-Forum.
(http://www.Aerostar-Forum.com)
It's a good group of folks, dedicated to serving our fellow pilots/owners by sharing unbiased info and fellowship.

2. Everyone (Even Wilber and Orvile) started out with zero time. The Aerostar is an honest plane, fly it by the numbers and it will perform as expected. I'd recommend taking Don Smith's course at Aerostar World, he has a plane he rents which will give you a good opportunity to get your feet wet before you have made your big purchase.

Lester Kyle is another good source for Aerostar specific training after you have your plane.
http://www.fly4kyle.com/

3. Contact CS &A insurance. (http://www.chappellsmith.com/call-us-800-999-1109/)
They can give you the straight scoop on what you'll need to do in terms of training.

4. Arrange a ride in an Aerostar.
Aerostar folks are different, we are generally not very evangelical (about anything), we know we have chosen a different path, one that isn't for everyone.
But that doesn't mean most of us aren't happy to spend a little time with someone who is interested, and asks.

It's a fair criticism, Tom. Like I said, I don't mind the opex and mx costs I see quoted if I get the capabilities I want/need. When I was shopping for my first plane, I thought a NA V-tail would meet my needs nicely. It turns out I was wrong, and spending another $100k+ (overhaul, TN, interior, paint, ADSB) on the wrong plane for me seems foolish.

Maybe the Aerostar isn't the right plane for me either, but the performance and maintenance numbers I'm seeing sure look interesting.

Done! I'll continue this thread there, too. Thanks!

A*700's keep popping up on my web browser on Controller. The speed is very alluring and would be very attractive for my business trips. It would increase my sales radius and would also cut an hour off my longer business trips (600-700nm).

However, I sat in one recently and it felt much more crowded than I had expected. In the Seneca, I can swing my legs to the side but in the A*, the pilot / co-pilot legs are locked in by the center console. I also understand that the front seats cannot recline, which is another negative for pilot comfort. I would be concerned what the comfort level would be after a long flight.

I'm also not certain if it would have the baggage cubic feet needed for our week long family trips. We pack a ton of crap in the Seneca in the nose, aft baggage and in the middle seat section (our middle row of seats are rarely installed and we use that space for baggage). Our SUV is stuffed to the gills when going to the airport and the Seneca swallows everything without a problem.

With the triple aft seat in the A* removed and the two middle row seats installed, I would think that would allow for quite a large space for baggage in the aft cabin. I've seen the external baggage compartment in the A* when the aux tank is installed and there doesn't appear to be a lot of room back there.

My other concerns about A*'s are what appears to be a VERY slow resale market (I see A*'s sit on the market for what appears to be a long time). I would also be concerned about mx as there are few shops near me who wrench on them.

I still can't stop thinking about the speed...