BeechTalk - BT - What am I not thinking about: A36 to Lancair

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 15:46

Username Protected wrote:

Why not the Columbia/Corvalis. Similar airframe, but certified. I know you give up pressurization, but you get a modern, factory built, insurable, fast, comfortable airplane.

Useful load is less than the Lancair ES/ES-P and the wing/aerofoil has much different behavior due to the certification process, has stall strips i believe

What really sucks is that all of the Cessna marketing uses ROP figures at 25,000FT to quote the speed, these are not realistic numbers to use and they're just in a pissing match with Cirrus, or were.

Secondly, what I hate, is that you don't get the luxury of going with experimental suite of avionics, you're stuck on the G1000/530.....after you fly the G3X Touch/GTN, the G1000 feels like very outdated technology - yes i know i'm bias, but i went through all these pros and cons extensively, i won't say a single bad thing about the Evolution

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 15:55

Username Protected wrote:

Columbia 400 is pressurized, 350 is not, Corvallis/TTx is pressurized

None of the Columbia/Corvallis/TTx models are pressurized, AFAIK.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 15:58

Username Protected wrote:

Columbia 400 is pressurized, 350 is not, Corvallis/TTx is pressurized

None of the Columbia/Corvallis/TTx models are pressurized, AFAIK.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 16:10

Username Protected wrote:

I switched to the A36 from a V35B 10 years ago due to comfort with 3 kids. It was a great decision and has served me very well. Not one regret. Now it is just the wife and I 90% of the time. Lots of IFR. I am slowing down on business flying, now it is just getting to Florida/New Orleans/Lubbock/occasional Mexico from San Antonio as quickly, comfortably and safely as possible. I cannot quit looking at the Lancair 4P and similar 4 seat models. I am not mechanically inclined, but am happy to pay someone who is for maintenance work. Before I troll the experimental boards, I thought I would query here. It is not about saving money, it is about 165kts vs 240kts or so. What am I missing or havent thought of.

Hey Greg -

Or find someone like me who has a TAT TN'ed F33A with Osborn tips and a growing family, and would like the space of a good, solid A36 (TN preferably...). :thumbup:

Just sayin...

Eric

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 16:29

Loads of good thoughts, what are the actual real numbers with ES and ES-P?
When I said money wasn't an issue I misspoke. Money is always an issue, i was thinking in the 2-300 k range.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 16:31

Username Protected wrote:

I switched to the A36 from a V35B 10 years ago due to comfort with 3 kids. It was a great decision and has served me very well. Not one regret. Now it is just the wife and I 90% of the time. Lots of IFR. I am slowing down on business flying, now it is just getting to Florida/New Orleans/Lubbock/occasional Mexico from San Antonio as quickly, comfortably and safely as possible. I cannot quit looking at the Lancair 4P and similar 4 seat models. I am not mechanically inclined, but am happy to pay someone who is for maintenance work. Before I troll the experimental boards, I thought I would query here. It is not about saving money, it is about 165kts vs 240kts or so. What am I missing or havent thought of.

Hey Greg -

Or find someone like me who has a TAT TN'ed F33A with Osborn tips and a growing family, and would like the space of a good, solid A36 (TN preferably...). :thumbup:

Just sayin...

Eric

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 16:33

Username Protected wrote:

Loads of good thoughts, what are the actual real numbers with ES and ES-P?
When I said money wasn't an issue I misspoke. Money is always an issue, i was thinking in the 2-300 k range.

When I was NA, takeoff fuel flow was around 22-25GPH if i recall, climbs about 1000fpm-1200fpm tapering off as manifold pressure drops, from 12,000ft you can still get 500fpm climb going, but you're doing 135KTAS in the climb, cruise around 160-165KTAS @ 11.5gph LOP, 170-175KTAS @ 14.5ROP

after TN, i'm seeing 35gph on takeoff, 1000fpm climb up to 20kFT, i've seen 165KTAS climb doing 1200FPM for example leaving 13,000FT, at 6000ft it will do 185kts @ 17.5GPH LOP, at 9000ft, 200kts @ 17.5GPH LOP, 12000-14000 205-210kts @ 17.5GPH LOP, 17,500 is highest i've gone and it was at 212-215kts

I believe the ES-P should have similar performance with higher CHT's, more fuel flow, and shortened TBO due to it having the TSIO power plant, it also has a lower useful load due to the higher weight with the pressurization and carbon construction, the rear bulkhead also limits storage space

Best part is, over the numbers i'm doing 80-85kts...note the speeds here in this vid i recently posted on BT, rock solid at either speed, and I have the added protection of the Garmin ESP nanny in the autopilot helping me keep it upright if i get distracted or stop being a pilot

[youtube]http://youtu.be/nynvh8BtCfM[/youtube]

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 17:08

Impressive, can you put an Air Conditioner in it?
I agree 100% with you on avionics.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 17:10

Username Protected wrote:

Impressive, can you put an Air Conditioner in it?
I agree 100% with you on avionics.

i have been debating this, with the ability to climb so quickly to comfortable air, the only reason to have AC is for ground operations, for the 50lb and $15k penalty, plus two holes in the fuselage, i'm just not there yet....the girlfriend tells me "NO" when i mention being tempted, that speaks volumes

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 17:50

Username Protected wrote:

Does insurance become reasonable with time?

It does not becomes reasonable for the IVP at any point in time and I don't see that trend changing anytime soon. As others have stated the ES and other models are fairly reasonable.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 18:56

[quote="Thomas Johnson"]The 4P is just nearly impossible to insure with any decent coverage and I think this says a lot

This

Don't do it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 18:58

http://www.fibercraftinc.com/

These guys make a "safety cirrus type wing cuff" for the IV-P that supposedly really tames it.

I still think the ES-P is a better compromise.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 19:45

The ES is impressive. I'm getting talked of the ledge with the IV P. I'm hearing what i need to hear

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 20:44

Nice article this month in plane and pilot or something about some super winglets for the IV and the author got into a nasty spin and lost 4k in altitude and ended that he was one of a few that got one in a spin and lived! Said the winglets allowed recovery, almost impossible without.

There's no free lunch, the IV is probably not the safest choice

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 Sep 2015, 21:01

Important to note the IV, IV-P, ES, and ES-P use the same fuselage, the wings and pressure bulkhead (and retract gear on the IV) are the variations

Side by side, the IV wing and tail looks like half the size of my ES, scary little unforgiving hot rod