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15 May 2025, 14:13 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2015, 12:34 
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Joined: 06/28/09
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
What did the government upgrade to?

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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2015, 12:38 
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Joined: 01/31/10
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Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
Username Protected wrote:
What did the government upgrade to?


They are now using multiple 206s and a turbine helicopter.

The issue for them with the Navajo was they needed two pilots and a deputy in the rear for every flight (guarding the door).

It seemed like the pilots were a bit disappointed to see it go...

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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2015, 12:51 
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Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 1010
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Location: Lynden, WA 38W
Aircraft: F33A-TN
Too bad she's not on civvy street.


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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2015, 19:45 
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Joined: 08/18/11
Posts: 321
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Company: American Aviation, Inc.
Location: Hayden Lake, ID
Aircraft: C90,340,PA31T,PC-12
I like the Navajo. Our first product was an intercooling system for the Navajo. I got to do some of the company test flying before the FAA test pilots got on board. Since we changed the mold line of the cowling we had to do all of the stalls as well as stability and control testing, and a dive test at 10% over VNE. It is a very solid honest flying airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2015, 20:45 
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Joined: 05/17/11
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Location: Kokomo, IN KOKK
Aircraft: Aerostar, PAY4, T-6
Jim

Is the system still on the market?

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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2015, 20:56 
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Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
Jim,

Are those intercooler kits still available?

Another question for guys familiar with the Navajo:

When taxiing, I noticed the nose wheel steering felt very stiff....kinda like steering an old Ford with no power steering. It turned fine, just took alot of force. I read its a hard connection with direct linkage. Also, this serial is just before the unlocking nose wheel.

On one of the strips in Mexico, I need to back taxi and do a 180 for departure so I'm curious...

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Last edited on 06 Aug 2015, 21:48, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2015, 21:39 
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Joined: 07/15/11
Posts: 4381
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Location: Owensboro, KY (KOWB)
Aircraft: 1957 Bonanza H35
I think all pipers are that way with direct linkage on nose wheel steering. My Cherokee was that way. Big difference coming to the Bo.


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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 13:15 
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Joined: 08/18/11
Posts: 321
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Company: American Aviation, Inc.
Location: Hayden Lake, ID
Aircraft: C90,340,PA31T,PC-12
Username Protected wrote:
Jim,

Are those intercooler kits still available?...

Yes it is still an active product. We have delivered more than 300 kits and interest is still strong. Those big Lycomings really respond well to breathing cooler air. Induction air temperatures in cruise go from about 200 degrees F down to around 80 degrees F. Here is an illustration of the system. We were lucky enough to hire Ed Schmued to design the intercooler cowling. You can see the similarity to the P-51 radiator cowling. Here is the link to info on Ed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Schmued


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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 14:21 
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Joined: 02/23/11
Posts: 663
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Company: J.A. Air Center
Location: Northern IL.
Aircraft: Bonanza
Congrats on the new plane! We at one time had a fleet of 7 PA-31-350 Chieftains, 4 Cargo, 3 passenger configuration. They are rather easy to support as fleet aircraft. Our engines were firewall forward @ TBO too.

I'm currently working on a PA-31-350 that came from Belize, it was in a US Government program as well, but rough for the wear. It's been taken all the way down, for complete refurbishment, on going for nearing 4 years. New Avionics gear, and glass flight panels are going in.

It was stripped down, A/C & Boots were removed, then laoded with 400 or so pounds electronic equipment plus crew while in Belize. Just the avionics, and flight panel removal, We have removed 90 pounds of gear. It's going back to passenger configuration, and getting the A/C and Boots re-installed.

It should be back in the air, later in the fall this year, as a very capable traveler.

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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 15:33 
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13397
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Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
Talked to Jim this morning RE: intercoolers. If the Navajo stays, we'll work on the BT discount. Sounds like I NEED the system!

Cold compressions and boroscope today. All valves and cross hatch look like new cylinders.


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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 18:31 
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13397
Post Likes: +7475
Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
One squawk (now fixed) was prop heat inop.

After running the system a few times we were able to determine that it was an intermittent failure leading us to the timer or breaker.

We isolated the breaker and found it to be the problem by jumping wires to another 25amp breaker switch. This took all of 5 minutes due to some Piper engineer who deserves a big kiss...

Check this out.
Attachment:
image.jpg


That's right. The back of the breaker panel is accessed by easily removing an exterior panel.

The inspection thus far has been a breeze. Everything is readily accessible. I'm beginning to understand why these are a favorite of commercial operators.


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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 18:34 
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Joined: 01/31/10
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Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
I'd love to learn more about operating the engines.

Jim Christy shared a bit with me this morning, but I'd love to know more about SOPs for the J2BD. I'm all ears for any advice and tips. I'm new to Lycoming as well so lay it on me.

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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 18:51 
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13397
Post Likes: +7475
Company: 320 Fam
Aircraft: 58TC, E-55, 195
Username Protected wrote:
Jim,

Are those intercooler kits still available?...

Yes it is still an active product. We have delivered more than 300 kits and interest is still strong. Those big Lycomings really respond well to breathing cooler air. Induction air temperatures in cruise go from about 200 degrees F down to around 80 degrees F. Here is an illustration of the system. We were lucky enough to hire Ed Schmued to design the intercooler cowling. You can see the similarity to the P-51 radiator cowling. Here is the link to info on Ed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Schmued

http://americanaviationinc.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=71

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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2015, 17:08 
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Joined: 12/11/10
Posts: 1872
Post Likes: +297
Aircraft: pa 31
Finally someone smart like me who bought a Navajo! Congrats! You will LOVE it :tongue:


Username Protected wrote:
:D

I just knew you were getting a Navajo.......

Sounds like you landed a very good airplane. Larry O would be a good person to chime in on this.

Personally love the cabin size.

There goes the Baron :duck:


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 Post subject: Re: Whuda thunk it - I bought a Piper (Navajo Panther)
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2015, 17:11 
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Joined: 12/11/10
Posts: 1872
Post Likes: +297
Aircraft: pa 31
The amps on the AC are fine..... When running the AC, make sure you are over 1100 rpm. Off until in the air, and OFF on approach.



Username Protected wrote:
THE STORY - (IF YOU HAVE NAVAJO TIME, SEE QUESTIONS BELOW AND TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS)

My wife just laughs. I found a flexible woman who can roll with lots of change. Life is good.

Through an unusual set of circumstances, I purchased a 1978 Navajo Panther conversion from the government.

This plane has an interesting history. It was operated by the DEA (who heavily upgraded the airplane), and then later operated by a large Sheriff's office to transport prisoners (CONAIR).

To say government spares no expense is a bit of an understatement after reviewing the logs.

EVERYTHING firewall forward was replaced 130 hours ago, including the baffling. The mechanic who did the work (a very nice woman who should be proud of her skills) delivered a beautiful product (as you'll see in the photos).

The cosmetics were decent on the inside, and will be very nice on the outside. I am re-furbing the interior a bit with the first annual along with adding Bose jacks, USBs, a pilot controlled rear plug for pre-cooling with the ice box, and a few other gizmos.

The Equipment:

130 Hr SFOH 350HP - TIO - 540J2BDs (good grief these things idle smooth - like a car)
4 BLADE QTips
242 gallons of fuel with dual nacelle tanks
FIKI with Hot windshield, Hot Props, Full Boots (including the elevator horns)
Ice Plates
Long Range Color Radar - overlayed on the EX-500
WX500
XM Downlink
KGP560 TAWS - B - overlayed on EX-500 with audio warnings
TAS - 600 Traffic (adsb in upgradeable - I'm seeing N numbers now??)
430W Nav/Com #3
STEC 65
King Gold Crown Coms x 2 (sweet!)
KRA 10A Radar Altimeter
JPI-760
Shadin FF
Electric Air conditioning (can be run on ground off power cart)
Cabin Circ blower
Crew Door (awesome)
Cargo door (adjacent to air stair for wide opening)
VGs with strakes and fences
Clevelands
8 seats (configured for 6 plus potty)


Right now we are inspecting the airframe and trying to find at least one drop of oil on the engines. At every turn we are finding new info supporting what a well-equipped bird this is and how well the government can take care of their aircraft.

I am not sure what I am going to do. I own a fabulous Baron with some very desirable options, but I do have use for more room and turbos. This plane just squeaks into my hangar.

I have not flown it yet, but we did do a high speed taxi on the runway. Full power resulted in 80KIAS after 1,000'. She was flying - we just never left the ground. The passenger area is quiet (no headsets necessary) with the Panther conversion and I'm told it doubles the OEI performance at gross. After that initial ground run...YIKES!! I believe it. Better yet, it was a really hot day and even with ground runs, the CHTs and oil temps stayed cool.

So, I'll check in with progress and some flight tests. No decisions will be made until I put her to use for awhile. At the moment, I am hopeful it works out as this plane looks like a fire-breathing party bus.

QUESTIONS:

First, what are the gotchas? I can see from the fuel selector setup that you need to pay attention when switching tanks. The system seems simple outside of that.

The alternators are 70amp. With electric AC, I imagine 100+ would be nice. What is the best available upgrade?

What kind of performance should I expect? As with the 421, the answers will be all over the map based on ROP/LOP and speed preference - but its all good info for me.

What length fields are required at mid-weight and at gross in real life ops?

This beast seems pretty stout, and is setup up for all-weather ops. What kind of dispatch reliability should I expect with the airframe and engines?

Thanks in advance....and for all my Beech bros :duck:


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