banner
banner

17 Jun 2025, 08:03 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Garmin International (Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 108 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 20:58 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12160
Post Likes: +3541
Aircraft: C55
Username Protected wrote:

Your point is? Or do you really not know that there is CRM training?

I believe you. I just would rather buy a SP jet.


Exactly,

The last thing I want to be doing is EXTRA training managing CRM along with everything else. Don't get me wrong. CRM training is great, but why would anyone want to own a plane that takes two pilots if they are only going to fly it 50-150 hours per year and want to go when you want to go, especially if you have to get a contract pilot? I think you would be much happier in a plane that you can fly yourself and put another pilot up front if you *want* to. The flexibility of SP is a big deal.
_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:07 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 1445
Post Likes: +938
The point some are missing is the mission of the professional pilot. Their job is to be ready at a moments notice to go fly. Whether it is hiring one pilot or a crew makes no difference. The man that owns the airplane has it for a reason. That is well understood in the corporate pilot world. I wouldn't want to rely on 800-4a-pilot either. My copilot works for me. I have a couple of backup for the extremely rare instance that he wouldn't be available.

The big plus for me is the peace of mind knowing that if I drop dead of a heart attack, I have somebody to get my family or key employees on the ground safely. My dear wife? My General Manager? Ain't gonna happen. That's a reality.

I am not saying everybody needs to fly with two pilots. Do what you want. The way it works is being misrepresented here. That's all.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:20 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2280
Post Likes: +2042
Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
It's all about enjoying the company of the one you are working with. I'll get the bags, you get the car. It makes the transition from air to ground and vise versa pretty smooth if two are working together. I'll get the flight plan loaded, you pay for the fuel. It's not a bad gig when have the right folks working in harmony. I worked as a co-captain and we would switch seats every leg. It's about making it work and greasing the wheels.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:21 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4438
Post Likes: +3304
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
SP jet is fine if you don't need the more spacious cabin/speed/range of two crew aircraft.

Hopping around the mainland US the SP jets fit a special niche. Want to go to Hawaii start looking for a co-pilot that suits. :D


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:28 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12160
Post Likes: +3541
Aircraft: C55
Thomas, I hear what you are saying, but in reality the chances of me dropping dead in the pilot's seat when I fly 50-150 hours per year are less than being stuck by lightning. If I was to buy a jet, I would buy one that was SP and hire a pilot when I felt it was necessary. It's no secret that jets are easier to fly. Many have two pilots because they were built for the high net worth/high liability passengers. Two pilots makes the liability insurance look better.

I have flown many jets by myself with the guy in the right seat doing nothing. There truly is no need for a second pilot in most modern jets.

_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:42 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 1445
Post Likes: +938
Quote:
It's no secret that jets are easier to fly


Another myth. You will get into trouble MUCH faster in a jet. Systems are complex. Performance management is key. That same performance that adds safety can also bite you in the ass.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:49 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 1445
Post Likes: +938
I have two pro pilot friends that had cardio events that both required surgery. Neither where in the airplane when it happened. One was in his early 50s and the other in his 40s. Another friend of mine perished in an empty leg to go pick up a 135 trip. Heart attack was suspected, but not proven. My father had his first heart attack at 49. I am 53 with a clean bill of health. That is not something I want to put my family or employees through.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:49 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14343
Post Likes: +12088
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Like I said...holy war.

TW: I actually thought your line was "live and let live" and hers was "lock and load". Trying to reconcile that with "my way or the highway". Bwthdik :rofl:

_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:52 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14343
Post Likes: +12088
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
I have two pro pilot friends that had cardio events that both required surgery. Neither where in the airplane when it happened. One was in his early 50s and the other in his 40s. Another friend of mine perished in an empty leg to go pick up a 135 trip. Heart attack was suspected, but not proven. My father had his first heart attack at 49. I am 53 with a clean bill of health. That is not something I want to put my family or employees through.



To my point Thomas, you wouldn't fly a Cherokee single pilot with others onboard correct? And, if you would, please reconcile that for me because I can't.

_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 22:57 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 1445
Post Likes: +938
Well, there is a difference. Low performance, easy to fly. ATC has successfully talked down planes like this with a non-pilot flying.

But, to answer your question, no I wouldn't without another person capable of landing it.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 23:00 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12160
Post Likes: +3541
Aircraft: C55
Whatever. A 421 is FAR more airplane to handle than a Citation Bravo. I have flown both and the 421 requires much more skill and attention to systems. The jet requires more attention to speed control and that is it. Manage the speed and you will never get in trouble in a jet.

_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 23:05 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/28/15
Posts: 60
Post Likes: +38
Aircraft: F33A
Username Protected wrote:
Whatever. A 421 is FAR more airplane to handle than a Citation Bravo. I have flown both and the 421 requires much more skill and attention to systems. The jet requires more attention to speed control and that is it. Manage the speed and you will never get in trouble in a jet.


As someone who has taught over 1,000 people to fly jets, all I can say is wow are you misinformed! Speed is but one aspect of the jet transition.

Did you do an initial CE-500 course to fly the Bravo, or did you just "go for a ride" where the type rated pilot let you sit up front and fly a bit?


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 23:08 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 1445
Post Likes: +938
Username Protected wrote:
Whatever. A 421 is FAR more airplane to handle than a Citation Bravo. I have flown both and the 421 requires much more skill and attention to systems. The jet requires more attention to speed control and that is it. Manage the speed and you will never get in trouble in a jet.


Whatever. I have 5 jet type ratings and own a 421. I disagree with you.
Think what you want, fly the way you want. I couldn't give two shits.


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 23:12 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7095
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
I have two pro pilot friends that had cardio events that both required surgery. Neither where in the airplane when it happened. One was in his early 50s and the other in his 40s. Another friend of mine perished in an empty leg to go pick up a 135 trip. Heart attack was suspected, but not proven. My father had his first heart attack at 49. I am 53 with a clean bill of health. That is not something I want to put my family or employees through.


I agree with you that pro pilots are a little on the unhealthy side. The two pro pilots that flew me home the other day had me nervous as hell. Both looked like a heart attack waiting to happen.

I woulda taken Crandall in a single engine prop over them any day of the week.

Sounds like you're the perfect target market for SF 50 :D

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


Top

 Post subject: Re: What about an Astra 1125 SP?
PostPosted: 25 May 2015, 23:13 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14343
Post Likes: +12088
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
Well, there is a difference. Low performance, easy to fly. ATC has successfully talked down planes like this with a non-pilot flying.

But, to answer your question, no I wouldn't without another person capable of landing it.


That is a perfectly logical response. It is clear where you stand and I respect that and your opinion.

What I cannot respect is the argument that essentially says a pilot stricken by a fatal heart attack is an acceptable risk in all SP aircraft but a jet. Pretty sure a dead pilot cannot land a slower less complex aircraft any better than a fast complex aircraft. In my experience plenty of Pro Pilots will attempt to make this absurd argument (in so many words). Actually had one try to convince me of this just last week as we were flying the 560. He finally said "I know it makes no sense but it is just how I feel". Lol. I agreed with both of those points.

_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Last edited on 25 May 2015, 23:43, edited 2 times in total.

Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 108 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next



PWI, Inc. (Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025

.ocraviation-85x50.png.
.rnp.85x50.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.aerox_85x100.png.
.mcfarlane-85x50.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.b-kool-85x50.png.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.holymicro-85x50.jpg.
.Elite-85x50.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.performanceaero-85x50.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.KingAirMaint85_50.png.
.concorde.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.