07 Jun 2025, 10:40 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester  Posted: 11 May 2015, 09:34 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote: Most people won't buy a plane for a mission that they will do 3-4 times per year. I think some will. People buy the airplane for their toughest mission even if that isn't common. 4 times per year would be enough for me to want it. US Coast to coast also opens up Europe without a Greenland stop. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 09:51 |
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Username Protected wrote: Most people won't buy a plane for a mission that they will do 3-4 times per year. I think some will. People buy the airplane for their toughest mission even if that isn't common. 4 times per year would be enough for me to want it. US Coast to coast also opens up Europe without a Greenland stop. Mike C.
I agree that some will. Will enough? Increasingly manufacturers will be looking at what the world wide market is for these planes. Can they sell enough in a global market to make money? I think there will be increasing capability for niche jets to be successful. There are plenty of growing businesses, or people with sufficient disposable money, who don't know, or don't care, what their max mission is who will want to buy capability to do the odd trip. For me 1000-1300 miles is enough and I could live quite happily with a Mustang.
That is another calculation for marginal operators. Do you spend the same money to buy, and more to operate, a jet with less range but faster or just go low and slow all the time - but faster on long trips which you don't do much - in a turbo prop.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 12:33 |
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
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Username Protected wrote: Some will, but most still won't. The SJ30 was built for this market. I thought it was going to be a great plane, as other Swearingen products I have flown. Hasn't made it yet.
The SJ30 came at the wrong time, it was just too early. Adding all the turbulence with the owners going bankrupt and assets sold abroad etc, the deck was stacked against it. It can still make it perhaps, I'm hoping it will (it's such a little beauty and with spectacular specs) but the best thing would be if Beechcraft or Cessna bought the thing. It would fit a niche in their market.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 13:02 |
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Joined: 11/09/13
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A break through in jet engine technology is all it would take to turn some current SP jets into coast to coast jets.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 13:27 |
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Username Protected wrote:
We need larger SP jets.
I don't think that's likely to happen. A single pilot jet is one heart-attack away from wiping out a house. I don't think the FAA is going to sign off on anything with more mass and speed than the largest SP airplane already out there.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 17:18 |
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Username Protected wrote: A single pilot jet is one heart-attack away from wiping out a house. Private jets hit houses. Two recent examples: Beech Premier in South Bend, IN. Embraer Phenom 100 in Gaithersburg, MD. But medical pilot incapacitation is EXTREMELY rare. I'm not aware of any part 91 jet crash from this, much less one that hit a house. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 17:53 |
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Joined: 01/29/09
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Username Protected wrote: The SJ30 came at the wrong time, it was just too early. Adding all the turbulence with the owners going bankrupt and assets sold abroad etc, the deck was stacked against it. It can still make it perhaps, I'm hoping it will (it's such a little beauty and with spectacular specs) but the best thing would be if Beechcraft or Cessna bought the thing. It would fit a niche in their market. It's interesting that the article touting the lead engineer for Honda has been engaged with this HondaJet project for 29 years and many have observed that no American company would be so inclined to take on such a long term commitment. Well, you're probably right but the SJ30 has been around that long and it's still questionable as to whether or not it will enjoy any market demand. The very last thing that Textron should ever do is look for a niche product with such a storied history of financial ruin. If you're all about looks the SJ30 fits the bill. If you're all about substance the HondaJet would be my choice.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 19:04 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah I did, and I'm not comparing to the airlines. I'm talking about jet buyers that won't fly airlines anyway. Will they choose a small tube jet and go 2000 miles? Some will, but enough to make a market? I'm not suggesting I know the answer--just asking the questions. I think the HondaJet doesn't go far enough or haul enough, but I was curious what the BT consensus would be on their minimum performance figures to be considered "enough."
I think they're hanging their hats on the efficiency play. Maybe that'll be enough. If a jet buyer won't fly airlines and won't fly in a smaller jet then you think they'll drive? I'm not following what you're saying. My minimum performance figures for coast to coast are PC12. The jet I buy needs to have at least the range and payload of the PC12 and be single pilot. I've hauled loads of pax coast to coast in the PC12. Not one has ever complained or said they'd rather fly commercial.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 19:08 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote:
We need larger SP jets.
I don't think that's likely to happen. A single pilot jet is one heart-attack away from wiping out a house. I don't think the FAA is going to sign off on anything with more mass and speed than the largest SP airplane already out there.
There is absolutely no reason to have 2 pilots up front unless you just want 2. By your comment, no airplane should be single pilot. Do you have 2 steering wheels in your car?
Many of you guys are fixated on "aviation accidents" yet for some reason you refuse to acknowledge that you have a better chance of being hit by a falling toilet.
2 pilots in case one has a heart attack??? C'mon? Get real.
BTW, have you heard of the PC24? CJ4? That's all you need.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 19:14 |
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Joined: 05/13/14
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah I did, and I'm not comparing to the airlines. I'm talking about jet buyers that won't fly airlines anyway. Will they choose a small tube jet and go 2000 miles? Some will, but enough to make a market? I'm not suggesting I know the answer--just asking the questions. I think the HondaJet doesn't go far enough or haul enough, but I was curious what the BT consensus would be on their minimum performance figures to be considered "enough."
I think they're hanging their hats on the efficiency play. Maybe that'll be enough. If a jet buyer won't fly airlines and won't fly in a smaller jet then you think they'll drive? I'm not following what you're saying.
I'm contemplating that the majority of jet customers that need a 2000nm range for non-stop coast-to-coast flights are not going to be interested in a smallish jet. They will want mid-size or larger. I think that's why the SJ30 has struggled.
There are certainly the owner-flown types that won't mind, but I'm wondering if that's a big enough segment for the long-range mission and attendant purchase prices.
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 19:24 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote: I'm contemplating that the majority of jet customers that need a 2000nm range for non-stop coast-to-coast flights are not going to be interested in a smallish jet. They will want mid-size or larger. I think that's why the SJ30 has struggled.
There are certainly the owner-flown types that won't mind, but I'm wondering if that's a big enough segment for the long-range mission and attendant purchase prices. SJ30=Owner flown "jet customers" means a lot of different things. You can also either afford to be one or you can't. I'm always amazed at how many jets are on the market to meet all needs. Here are the top 10 GA planes flying right now. I think the owner flown segment is bigger than all others: 42 C172 Cessna Skyhawk 40 C208 Cessna Caravan 38 B190 Beechcraft 1900 38 PC12 Pilatus PC-12 32 BE20 Beechcraft Super King Air 200 25 C56X Cessna Citation Excel 22 C750 Cessna Citation X 22 PA31 Piper Navajo 22 SR22 Cirrus SR-22
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Post subject: Re: Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yester Posted: 11 May 2015, 19:33 |
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Username Protected wrote: I've hauled loads of pax coast to coast in the PC12. Not non stop. By that standard, any jet is "coast to coast". Mike C.
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