BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 13:47

Username Protected wrote:

I'm in for a dime Michael. 50 or more before 12/31/16, as reported by 3/1/17.

We have an accord. I'll deliver in person if I loose. :cheers:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 14:43

Deal, I'll send my money to Arlen since you are going to owe him dinner anyway he can collect yours for me there if I can't make it.

Arlen....PM me an address. You just became my bookie :)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 14:44

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 17:50

Username Protected wrote:

Hey everyone! Florida dinner fly-in: March 2017, location TBD.

The "BeechTalk SF50 Milestone Awards Banquet".

Maybe we can get an SF50 to show up? Maybe serial #50? That is, if it exists.... :-)

Serial #51 is for sale:

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... 371115.htm

"Estimated Delivery: Mid 2016"

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 17:56

Mike, I'm starting to like you

You're turning from an engineer to poker player..........

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 18:40

Username Protected wrote:

anyone working the side betting action here.

I'll be in for a dime on Cirrus less than 50 units.

OK.

I'll take the Cirrus SF50 at 50-units-or-more-by-end-of-2016 side of this, but if I lose I will NOT leave BeechTalk for some number of months. THAT is too harsh of a consequence for losing.

That's like asking me to hold my breath for 2 hours, or to not go to the airport for a month, or some other terrible penalty.... ......just no way I could comply.

But, if I lose, I would meet the winner somewhere and buy dinner for him/her and several other BeechTalk friends who may be in the neighborhood! :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 19:08

FINALLY.

After 115 pages, resolution.

:ahhh:

My money's on the guy with the last name beginning with "C".

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 19:37

Username Protected wrote:

FINALLY.

After 115 pages, resolution.

:ahhh:

My money's on the guy with the last name beginning with "C".

You must be new here, eh?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 May 2015, 19:46

Username Protected wrote:

I'm fine with this except Cirrus has no control over certification dates. That's not a Cirrus issue. It's an FAA issue.

That's not true, of course. Delays in certification trace back to inexperience, errors, mistakes at the manufacturer. Boeing and Cessna don't seem to experience these arbitrary delays you imply the FAA creates.

Further, a delay in certification doesn't change production capacity, it would only delay early deliveries.

Take the bet or not. No weaseling.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 May 2015, 00:31

Username Protected wrote:

My bet makes a lot more sense and deals with the success of the product.

Which one of your myriad of ambiguous bets are you talking about now?

A bet with no deadline is no bet at all. You can never lose.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 May 2015, 00:38

Username Protected wrote:

Cirrus has no control over the FAA.

False.

Submit a design with proper tests that meet certification standards and you get certified.

You are postulating the FAA will arbitrarily delay projects. There is no evidence of that.

Do you believe Cirrus can do it or not? It seems you are already collecting excuses for their failure.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 May 2015, 00:45

Username Protected wrote:

Cirrus has no control over the FAA.

False.

Submit a design with proper tests that meet certification standards and you get certified.

You are postulating the FAA will arbitrarily delay projects. There is no evidence of that.

Do you believe Cirrus can do it or not? It seems you are already collecting excuses for their failure.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 May 2015, 01:05

Username Protected wrote:

Actually, I know of multiple projects, STC and Type certificate issues where the FAA dropped the ball and the projects were delayed years.

I suspect that any project claimed to be delayed "years" due solely to the FAA isn't telling the whole story.

I don't know of any new aircraft certification project where the FAA arbitrarily introduced years of delay.

Sometimes the FAA goes too far the other way, like fast tracking the Eclipse certification on very questionable grounds, so much so that it caused a congressional hearing.

Quote:

So yeah, the FAA plays a major role in the certification timeline.

Cirrus, who has worked with the FAA before, says they can do it. Do you not believe them?

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 May 2015, 01:22

Username Protected wrote:

I don't know of any new aircraft certification project where the FAA arbitrarily introduced years of delay.

If that's the case, then how come EASA certification is quicker and a backdoor entry into FAA? They share the same certification standards to a very large degree.

Remember when Thielert went bankrupt? How long did it take Austro to certify the brand new AE300 - less than 2 years? Do you think that would have happened if that had been pursued in FAA-land? No chance whatsoever. It would still be going through the motions, I bet. How long has Deltahawk been trying to certify their diesel? Is it 20 years now?

America always prides itself in its freedoms, be that as it may for private sector, but the bureaucracy here is second to none. One hasn't experienced bureaucracy until one's experienced US bureaucracy. It's Kafka-esque here at times. And I say this having grown up in a 'socialist' country.

Certification from FAA is highly arbitrary. Took Honda 10+ years, but Cessna can do it over a weekend. Reeks of old boy network, if you ask me.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 May 2015, 08:38

Look at Cessna trying to certify the diesel in the C182.
That going on over 3 years now. Cessna must know a thing about certifiying aircrafts?