Mike I meant 2400Wh/kg.

Todd, you're on. Hopefully I won't fly into a mountainside before that day comes..

I did that, on a 26' Hunter, the power ran my autopilot (Autohelm) & GPS & radios, (VHF & FM), but it asking a little much to have them push water....

I'm talking about the whole deck being made of solar panel type material and the sail being made out of it as well. The surface area would be huge.

I knew what you were saying, but I don't think it would be that huge, to be honest.

You wouldn't put any panels on the side of the boat, only on the deck. SO if it's a 45 foot boat (BIG sailboat) & the boat has a 12 foot beam, and EVEN if it was 12 foot bow to stern, that's only 540 SF of deck area, if you use all of it.

My 100 panels that make 7.2KW use about 800 SF, so relatively speaking 540 SF is going to make 5KW, not a lot for a 45 foot boat....

Even at 100% conversion efficiency, seems like it would be hard to get a sailboat sized patch of sunlight to move a sailboat :(

I happen to know a thing or three about sailing
The old clipper ships carried serious cargo before the steam ships took over. Flying Clouds San Fran to New York stood for a hundred years.

http://www.planetsolar.org/ is what you need if you want to move a boat by solar.

http://www.cnet.com/news/hybrid-cars-pl ... big-thing/

Todd's 4th plane from now will be electric!!!

I feel like this thread, as most do, has drifted well away from where it started. You guys are talking about electrifying your Bonanzas and MU2s which is completely insane given current technology (thanks to everyone who supplied to math to point this out). No one on the pro-electric side is saying that the technology to create an Electric Bonanza is out there, we're just a lot more optimistic about when it will be.

The plane that started this thread is not a Bonanza, it's not going to do 165kts in cruise, and it's not going to hold 4 adults and some luggage, and it's not going to be able to do a 5 hours cross country flight.

And that is perfectly ok because that's not it's mission (which we're all so obsessed over when buying planes). If the Sun Flyer can do 1hr flights around the pattern and costs < $50 an hour to operate I think it would be a great training tool that I would have used for practice flights during my PPL.

And for all the naysayers out there even Airbus is about to launch an early electric plane, which like most electric cars will be limited at first.

http://www.airbusgroup.com/int/en/story ... craft.html

http://www.cnet.com/news/airbus-shows-e ... e-in-2017/

Todd, I believe the trainer will be a failure, too, as it barely has enough power to carry itself into the air; so in terms of the drift here, sure, it drifted, but there are protagonists for electric planes that made their point that GA will have legitimate flying planes on electricity relatively soon, and it ain't gonna happen....

Those electric powered training planes, for the power they have right now, they'll be dangerous to fly, simply because of how underpowered they are. JMO.

Todd, don't listen to Chris he knoweth not what he speaketh.
It's already here......

Chris, we'll talk this summer in Cascade

Brother Michael, bring me a plane, a 2 seat trainer that will develop 90 SHP for a couple of hours...& be able to carry the battery that stores that much power, & I INSTANTLY become a believer.

Til then, I'll share some home made Apple Pie Moonshine with you & we'll laugh about it...we'll do this.... then this...

In the end, I think we'd all like to see electric powered everything, but man oh man, power, is power, and it's VERY hard to store the same mount of power in a battery that you get form 20 gallons of gasoline. Just sayin'.

Thus hydrocarbon fueled airplanes are here to stay for a long time.


The solar cells are fluff, they don't do anything truly useful during flight. It is basically an electric airplane which costs more due to having so many solar cells.

It's not very good for training. It takes off in a fuel critical state. I takes time to recharge on the ground. The solar cells make it cost more than it should.


The E-Fan is kind of cute and the demonstrator has moderately realistic goals of 1 hour (though maximum demonstrated to date is 37 minutes).

I noted it has a separate taxi and takeoff assist motor for the single main wheel. Saves power.

Total power is 60 KW (80 HP). Battery weight is 127 Kg (280 lbs). Assuming an average power of 50% during flight, this requires a 30 KWH battery. This is 236 WH/Kg, which at the upper end of what is possible today.

I wonder if the ducted fans are more efficient than conventional props. One would think not.

The production versions will be E-fan 2.0, two seater, and E-Fan 4.0, four seater. They are aiming for 2 hours endurance.

Note this, though:

http://aviationweek.com/farnborough-201 ... aft-market

Engineers say they still need to produce significant enhancements in battery performance in order to achieve the required levels of endurance. But Airbus Group CEO Tom Enders points out that in the time it took for hydrocarbon prices to double, the power-density of batteries tripled, and there is high confidence that battery capabilities will continue to increase.

Seems their goals are predicated on significant increases in battery energy density.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubCLx9PCgIY

Mike C.

Mike C +10.

Well, they have to start somewhere. At least someone is trying to help us all achieve cheaper and safer flight. I can't understand the resistance from within the aviation community when this subject comes up. GA is dying a (not even) slow death. If we can somehow find a way to fly airplanes at a 5th of the cost, do so much safer and simpler (so that recruiting new pilots will be easier), then that's a great thing. That's a revolution in the making.

I was personally very surprised at how little coverage in aviation magazines the Solar Impulse had. It covered Continental US on solar and battery power alone. That to me is huge. It should have been on every Flying Magazine cover, AOPA cover there was, but instead it was the usual drool reporting about the new G650 or something else unattainable for the masses. Now they're preparing to fly around the world and no real coverage of that either. If they succeed, that to me would be the biggest thing in aviation history.

Electric airplanes started at grassroots level with Fleischmann's ElectraFlyer and similar homebuilts. Technology these guys pioneered in a shed will eventually be in all aircraft. Same thing with composite construction. Didn't come from some military lab or some high tech skunkwork - it came from EAA guys in sheds (Windecker to be specific). Look where it's now - adopted by all.

Adam, you call it "resistance" when in actuality, the aviation community's inability to wrap their heads around electric airplanes has more to do with "reality" and "viability" than anything else.

I'd like to fly for 20% of what I pay to fly now. Who wouldn't?

Now, what IS viable?
Gasoline. Period.

As to "have to start somewhere"; sure, start. But right now, in all fairness, there isn't ONE electric vehicle that will carry the loads I need it to carry & bring me to town & back up the hill I live on. NOT ONE.

So; if there isn't a viable car that can do this, how far, exactly; do you think we are away from anything remotely able to do this in an aviation format?

Truth is, there have been thousands of people working on trying to make it work in cars for the last 30+ years, actually more, starting in the 70's. They are just now able to make a car that is semi viable in the Leaf & Prius, they are ok if you don't have to go that far.

I think the idea of blaming the people who don't think that electric planes are viable is flatly wrong. It's the same as saying that if you don't think that people will have rockets in their backyards that will take them into space in the next few years than they are "resisting".

Not true, either, because I think most people'd love to have a rocket in their backyard, got to Europe in 20 minutes, etc, but the majority of society is also level headed in their common sense about it's viability.

Same goes for electric airplanes. They're a joke right now, and will be for another 50 years.