18 Jun 2025, 17:14 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 19 Jan 2015, 18:43 |
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Joined: 06/23/09 Posts: 7001 Post Likes: +3034 Company: Dermatology Location: ChattanoogaDayton, TN (2A0)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: The MU-2, so eazy a caveman could fly it! Sorry couldn't resist. The MU-2 is a far superior aircraft when it comes to efficiency and performance than a King Air. The downside is that it is a bit more complicated to operate than a King Air. Here's a video link to it's first flight, which was shortly after the King Air's first flight. [YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-rA1Sv9V5E&feature=youtu.be[/YouTube] I have no idea how to make that link show up as a video!  FIFY [youtube]http://youtu.be/3-rA1Sv9V5E[/youtube]
_________________ Jay P. Having COVID over Christmas SUCKS!!!!!
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 19 Jan 2015, 20:11 |
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Joined: 02/09/11 Posts: 652 Post Likes: +102 Company: Aero Teknic Inc. Location: CYHU / Montreal St-Hubert
Aircraft: MU-2B-60, SR22,C182Q
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Inspired by Mike C.... lacking the 100 hours MULTI PIC that SFAR 108 requires, I did the SFAR 108 training last summer as a 2000-hour-ish PPL (didn't convert my Canadian ATPL to FAA ATP yet, ran out of time due to above said SFAR 108 training).
Since then, I've been flying the Marquise with a mentor pilot that I had to create out of thin air, being in Canada and not having any SFAR 108 qualified mentor pilot available in this area. So basically my SFAR 108 training buddy is now my mentor, but he's a jet jockey with a zillion hours and flew Merlins in another life. I've also managed to beg/borrow/steal some B55 and B58P hours to fill in MULTI PIC column in my logbook (on top of the MU-2 time as Mike C. pointed out you can log while being mentored) as I prepare to make the jump and ask insurance to cover me as PIC on the MU-2.
Here's the funny part now... I could have qualified to MENTOR MY MENTOR without having 100 hours Multi PIC ! You see, our insurance required the Jet Jockey to do 15 hours of mentoring + 5 hours of solo. Had I been able to do my SFAR 108 training a week earlier, I would have been able to act as the Mentor for my Mentor... insurance simply asked for "an SFAR 108 qualified pilot"... which I am, even though with less than 100 hours PIC, I could not have acted as PIC of our MU-2, but my buddy, with a zillion multi hours, would have been the PIC and me the mentor as SIC.
How messed up is that ? I don't think the insurance company ever thought of that possibility !
Flying the MU-2 is very rewarding. I think if you can smoothly and precisely fly (and land) an MU-2, you can fly anything. Jets are easier.
-Pascal
_________________ http://www.wi-flight.net/
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 19 Jan 2015, 21:47 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8679 Post Likes: +9205 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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Username Protected wrote: In contrast to the spoilers, an area of considerable difference is engine operations. The MU2 is no different than other TPE331 powered aircraft, so this isn't MU2 specific, but the TPE331 has a lot of underlying complexity to it that the pilot should understand. This is stuff like underspeed governor, overspeed governor, prop governor, beta tube, pitch control, feathering valve, NTS system, starting, fuel controller, etc.
In actual use, the engines are fairly simple, but to understand how it all works is not.
Mike C.
I'm very impressed with the TPE331 engines and the speed and economy they produce on the airframes that use them. Lower fuel flows than P&W, longer service life (between overhauls) and faster speeds on the airframes that fly them: Conquest 1, Mitsubishi & KA B100. If I were interested in buying a twin engine turbo prop those are the planes I'd look at. BWTHDIK, I just think it's all very interesting.
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 20 Jan 2015, 11:08 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20349 Post Likes: +25505 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: The other huge advantage of the Garrett over the P&W is the lack of lag in response to throttle movements. The instant throttle response is very nice. Besides the obvious ability to change power in flight with instant feedback, it also means getting quick reverse on landing. A more subtle benefit is steady bleed air for cabin pressurization. Changes in engine power make no difference to the cabin since the engine always runs at speed. Quote: Much easier than looking up power tables... Until the SRL goes out, then you are back to tables... The power tables are really no effort. They only come into play when approaching temp limit which for me is above FL180. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 20 Jan 2015, 12:47 |
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Joined: 10/10/10 Posts: 676 Post Likes: +490
Aircraft: C441 Conquest II
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Username Protected wrote: The power tables are really no effort. They only come into play when approaching temp limit which for me is above FL180.
Mike C. Not saying they are hard. Just that once you have spent time flying a plane with power tables, it is nice to fly one where you don't have to worry about it. It's the same as when you go from an old-style throttle system to a FADEC system or to a plane with auto-throttles...it's a feature you appreciate!
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 20 Jan 2015, 15:38 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20349 Post Likes: +25505 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: It's the same as when you go from an old-style throttle system to a FADEC system SRL is nothing like a FADEC. A FADEC prevents the pilot from exceeding the engine limits. All the SRL does is present one "red line" for you to follow, but you can still exceed it. The SRL also has the added risk that if it fails, or the SRL computer is unknowingly shutoff, the temperature reads lower. If the pilot doesn't notice this, he could easily exceed limits. I've been told this has happened at least once, though I don't have the particulars. I personally find it easier to deal with the temperature chart than to monitor the SRL to be sure it is doing it right. To each his own. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 20 Jan 2015, 16:13 |
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Joined: 08/25/13 Posts: 615 Post Likes: +128
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Username Protected wrote: It's the same as when you go from an old-style throttle system to a FADEC system SRL is nothing like a FADEC. A FADEC prevents the pilot from exceeding the engine limits. All the SRL does is present one "red line" for you to follow, but you can still exceed it. The SRL also has the added risk that if it fails, or the SRL computer is unknowingly shutoff, the temperature reads lower. If the pilot doesn't notice this, he could easily exceed limits. I've been told this has happened at least once, though I don't have the particulars. I personally find it easier to deal with the temperature chart than to monitor the SRL to be sure it is doing it right. To each his own. Mike C.
SRL for PT6 sounds to me like one SQL statement, 10 lines of code, 9 dealing with display. Why doesn't anyone make an instrument like that?
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 20 Jan 2015, 17:04 |
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Joined: 10/10/10 Posts: 676 Post Likes: +490
Aircraft: C441 Conquest II
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Username Protected wrote: It's the same as when you go from an old-style throttle system to a FADEC system SRL is nothing like a FADEC. A FADEC prevents the pilot from exceeding the engine limits. All the SRL does is present one "red line" for you to follow, but you can still exceed it. Mike, you are quoting me out of context. I did not imply or suggest that an SRL is the same as a FADEC. What I suggested was that going from look up tables to an SRL is similar to the ease of operation gained when going from normal throttles to a FADEC or using auto-throttles. My point wasn't that SRL makes it impossible to over torque or over temp an engine, but that it does make operating the engine easier than with lookup tables. You only have to remember one number (assuming the SRL system is operating) and stay below it no matter what altitude or OAT. It also allows you to get more performance from the engine than the lookup tables which are more conservative and only for given data points vice all points in between.
As someone who has operated both SRL and non-SRL turboprops, I can tell you that it is easier to operate one with SRL. FADEC is even easier. Auto throttles make flying easier for different reasons (not related to overtemp issues). If you prefer flying a non-SRL plane, more power to you, but I think the vast majority of folks would feel differently.
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 20 Jan 2015, 21:34 |
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Joined: 08/08/12 Posts: 1445 Post Likes: +938
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Okay Mike, Dave and I fly the Marquise. Our planes are better than yours. Carry on...
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Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin Posted: 21 Jan 2015, 00:14 |
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Joined: 11/22/08 Posts: 3089 Post Likes: +1054 Company: USAF Propulsion Laboratory Location: Dayton, OH
Aircraft: PA24, AEST 680, 421
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Username Protected wrote: For example, consider this LET L200D cockpit, a piston twin, and look at all those knobs all the same size, shape, and color! Now tell me a piston twin is simpler... Attachment: l200d-cockpit-1.png Mike C. When I lived in eastern europe, I got checked out and accumulated a few hours in the L200. Yep, full of knobs and nothing was in english to help things out. It is a nice handling twin, seats three across in the back seat. I am guessing most turboshafts are easier to manage power with.
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