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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 18:43 
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The MU-2, so eazy a caveman could fly it! Sorry couldn't resist.

The MU-2 is a far superior aircraft when it comes to efficiency and performance than a King Air. The downside is that it is a bit more complicated to operate than a King Air. Here's a video link to it's first flight, which was shortly after the King Air's first flight.

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-rA1Sv9V5E&feature=youtu.be[/YouTube]

I have no idea how to make that link show up as a video! :bang:


FIFY

[youtube]http://youtu.be/3-rA1Sv9V5E[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 20:11 
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Joined: 02/09/11
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Company: Aero Teknic Inc.
Location: CYHU / Montreal St-Hubert
Aircraft: MU-2B-60, SR22,C182Q
Inspired by Mike C.... lacking the 100 hours MULTI PIC that SFAR 108 requires, I did the SFAR 108 training last summer as a 2000-hour-ish PPL (didn't convert my Canadian ATPL to FAA ATP yet, ran out of time due to above said SFAR 108 training).

Since then, I've been flying the Marquise with a mentor pilot that I had to create out of thin air, being in Canada and not having any SFAR 108 qualified mentor pilot available in this area. So basically my SFAR 108 training buddy is now my mentor, but he's a jet jockey with a zillion hours and flew Merlins in another life. I've also managed to beg/borrow/steal some B55 and B58P hours to fill in MULTI PIC column in my logbook (on top of the MU-2 time as Mike C. pointed out you can log while being mentored) as I prepare to make the jump and ask insurance to cover me as PIC on the MU-2.

Here's the funny part now... I could have qualified to MENTOR MY MENTOR without having 100 hours Multi PIC ! You see, our insurance required the Jet Jockey to do 15 hours of mentoring + 5 hours of solo. Had I been able to do my SFAR 108 training a week earlier, I would have been able to act as the Mentor for my Mentor... insurance simply asked for "an SFAR 108 qualified pilot"... which I am, even though with less than 100 hours PIC, I could not have acted as PIC of our MU-2, but my buddy, with a zillion multi hours, would have been the PIC and me the mentor as SIC.

How messed up is that ? I don't think the insurance company ever thought of that possibility !

Flying the MU-2 is very rewarding. I think if you can smoothly and precisely fly (and land) an MU-2, you can fly anything. Jets are easier.

-Pascal

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 20:31 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
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This is good for a few laughs:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/pKFO5u4AbIQ[/youtube]

The MU-2A (not B) had Turbomeca Astazou engines on pylons. Never went into production, a few prototypes remain on static display. But cool looking...

Nobody knows where this video came from and what it is about.

I like the Cessna 170 cameo!

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 21:12 
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Joined: 07/10/10
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Location: New Braunfels, TX
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Anyone who wears gloves when he flies has to be cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 21:47 
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:

In contrast to the spoilers, an area of considerable difference is engine operations. The MU2 is no different than other TPE331 powered aircraft, so this isn't MU2 specific, but the TPE331 has a lot of underlying complexity to it that the pilot should understand. This is stuff like underspeed governor, overspeed governor, prop governor, beta tube, pitch control, feathering valve, NTS system, starting, fuel controller, etc.

In actual use, the engines are fairly simple, but to understand how it all works is not.

Mike C.


I'm very impressed with the TPE331 engines and the speed and economy they produce on the airframes that use them. Lower fuel flows than P&W, longer service life (between overhauls) and faster speeds on the airframes that fly them: Conquest 1, Mitsubishi & KA B100. If I were interested in buying a twin engine turbo prop those are the planes I'd look at.

BWTHDIK, I just think it's all very interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 22:12 
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Joined: 07/30/12
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Company: Aerlogix, Jet Aeronautical
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Aircraft: B-55, RV-6
The Garrett is a superior engine in my opinion.

Pratts were built by geniuses for idiots to fly, Garretts were built by idiots for geniuses to fly, lol. The garrett is definitely a little more finicky to operate, but true, it's life cycles and fuel flow are better than the pratt.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 23:52 
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Joined: 10/10/10
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Aircraft: C441 Conquest II
The other huge advantage of the Garrett over the P&W is the lack of lag in response to throttle movements. Once you fly a Garrett, going back to a P&W truly feels like you are flying a "push and wait" plane. The ability to get fine responses to throttle movements quickly, as well as immediate response when you move the throttles forward for a go around or takeoff is really something if you are used to P&Ws...

I also don't find the Garretts harder to fly/operate than a P&W. Of course I fly a later model (-10 engine) which has the Single Red Line (SRL) computer so you literally just go to 100% on takeoff, climb out at 100% and then when you temp out at 650 degrees EGT, back off to hold 650 until it is time to pull back the power for descent. Much easier than looking up power tables...


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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2015, 11:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
The other huge advantage of the Garrett over the P&W is the lack of lag in response to throttle movements.

The instant throttle response is very nice. Besides the obvious ability to change power in flight with instant feedback, it also means getting quick reverse on landing.

A more subtle benefit is steady bleed air for cabin pressurization. Changes in engine power make no difference to the cabin since the engine always runs at speed.

Quote:
Much easier than looking up power tables...

Until the SRL goes out, then you are back to tables...

The power tables are really no effort. They only come into play when approaching temp limit which for me is above FL180.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2015, 12:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
The power tables are really no effort. They only come into play when approaching temp limit which for me is above FL180.

Mike C.

Not saying they are hard. Just that once you have spent time flying a plane with power tables, it is nice to fly one where you don't have to worry about it. It's the same as when you go from an old-style throttle system to a FADEC system or to a plane with auto-throttles...it's a feature you appreciate!

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2015, 15:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
It's the same as when you go from an old-style throttle system to a FADEC system

SRL is nothing like a FADEC. A FADEC prevents the pilot from exceeding the engine limits. All the SRL does is present one "red line" for you to follow, but you can still exceed it.

The SRL also has the added risk that if it fails, or the SRL computer is unknowingly shutoff, the temperature reads lower. If the pilot doesn't notice this, he could easily exceed limits. I've been told this has happened at least once, though I don't have the particulars.

I personally find it easier to deal with the temperature chart than to monitor the SRL to be sure it is doing it right. To each his own.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2015, 16:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
It's the same as when you go from an old-style throttle system to a FADEC system

SRL is nothing like a FADEC. A FADEC prevents the pilot from exceeding the engine limits. All the SRL does is present one "red line" for you to follow, but you can still exceed it.

The SRL also has the added risk that if it fails, or the SRL computer is unknowingly shutoff, the temperature reads lower. If the pilot doesn't notice this, he could easily exceed limits. I've been told this has happened at least once, though I don't have the particulars.

I personally find it easier to deal with the temperature chart than to monitor the SRL to be sure it is doing it right. To each his own.

Mike C.


SRL for PT6 sounds to me like one SQL statement, 10 lines of code, 9 dealing with display. Why doesn't anyone make an instrument like that?

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2015, 17:04 
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Aircraft: C441 Conquest II
Username Protected wrote:
It's the same as when you go from an old-style throttle system to a FADEC system

SRL is nothing like a FADEC. A FADEC prevents the pilot from exceeding the engine limits. All the SRL does is present one "red line" for you to follow, but you can still exceed it.
Mike, you are quoting me out of context. I did not imply or suggest that an SRL is the same as a FADEC. What I suggested was that going from look up tables to an SRL is similar to the ease of operation gained when going from normal throttles to a FADEC or using auto-throttles. My point wasn't that SRL makes it impossible to over torque or over temp an engine, but that it does make operating the engine easier than with lookup tables. You only have to remember one number (assuming the SRL system is operating) and stay below it no matter what altitude or OAT. It also allows you to get more performance from the engine than the lookup tables which are more conservative and only for given data points vice all points in between.

As someone who has operated both SRL and non-SRL turboprops, I can tell you that it is easier to operate one with SRL. FADEC is even easier. Auto throttles make flying easier for different reasons (not related to overtemp issues). If you prefer flying a non-SRL plane, more power to you, but I think the vast majority of folks would feel differently.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2015, 21:34 
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Okay Mike, Dave and I fly the Marquise. Our planes are better than yours. ;)

:tongue:

Carry on...


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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2015, 00:14 
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Company: USAF Propulsion Laboratory
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Username Protected wrote:
For example, consider this LET L200D cockpit, a piston twin, and look at all those knobs all the same size, shape, and color! Now tell me a piston twin is simpler...
Attachment:
l200d-cockpit-1.png

Mike C.


When I lived in eastern europe, I got checked out and accumulated a few hours in the L200. Yep, full of knobs and nothing was in english to help things out. It is a nice handling twin, seats three across in the back seat. I am guessing most turboshafts are easier to manage power with.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi for first twin
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2015, 00:20 
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I almost bought a project Morava when I lived in England many years ago. I love the design of them, think they're absolutely gorgeous. But I'm so glad I didn't buy that project. Would have been way in over my head.

Here I am many years ago standing next to the fuselage on an English farm.


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