I found a few MU2 owners who didn't mind (or actually liked) having a copilot along. Even if all you do is cruise human autopilot, that's loggable as PIC time.


15-20 hours of the initial course plus 50 hours insurance mentoring time (typical, especially for low time ME pilot), you are at 70 hours. So we are really only talking about 30 more hours due to the SFAR requirement.

A hired mentor or instructor is more cost, but on the scale of this airplane, not much. In my case, I had a local MU2 pilot who served as one of my mentors for free, and I had another contract pilot/mentor who I also used. It is amazing what you can learn just talking with someone in the cockpit for a few dozen hours.

The 100 hour PIC requirement is stupid, but it still must be met.

Mike C.

ACTING as PIC is different than LOGGING as PIC. All that is required to LOG is sole manipulator of the aircraft for which you are RATED.


No, the SFAR IS NOT a type rating. An ME pilot is RATED in an MU2 even if they don't meet the 100 hour PIC time requirement.


Get your ME rating in another twin. It is quick and cheap.

If you get your SFAR and ME training in the MU2, then do the ME check ride in the MU2, all the time during that training is NOT loggable as PIC time since you weren't rated. Go get an ME rating FIRST, then all your SFAR training counts towards the 100 hours PIC time.

Mike C.

It is theoretically possible, but not optimal.


Key word: ACT as PIC.


Not true, SFAR is not a type rating, and the pilot is sole manipulator of an aircraft in which he is rated.


But you are rated in the aircraft and can LOG the time as PIC per the FARs.

Mike C.

Whenever you jump up in speed you can have a tendency to fall behind.

Just remember, "don't let the jet penetrate airspace your brain hasn't already occupied"

Doubtful that any DPE or Inspector would agree or could get authorization to do a multi-ride in an MU-2. I've had owner pilots that wanted to do their multi in the Citation and King Air, uh, no!

Why no love for the piston twin while building time? It's just another plane to make decisions in while acting as PIC. Certainly, if an MU-2 is the goal, you wouldn't be "scared" of the piston twin.

I heard stories from Cessna folks that there are some folks who got their PRIVATE pilot's license in a Citation.

There's technically no reason someone could get an ME rating in an MU2. There are MU2 qualified DPEs.


Builds piston habits that have to be unlearned.

You still aren't thinking at MU2 speeds.

If an engine quits, the pilot would be better off in the MU2.

Mike C.

Mike, find me a DPE that has authorization to give a ME checkride in an MU-2, I'm not questioning the technicalities of the issue. I've heard lots of "stories" about Citation type ratings too. Private pilot type rating in a Citation, show me that recently. BTW, I have the cockpit poster of the CE 500 that flew Jesus to the last supper on my wall.

Piston think, how bout boat think. Props are for boats and the MU-2 qualifies just like the rest of em. There's still an engine hanging out on the wing that doesn't go away when the engine quits.

I have a little flight time, tell me what I do differently when an engine quits in an MU-2 versus a B55 Baron. Fly the plane, get the gear up, verify it feathered, next. Yes, I know about spoilers, didn't know they were there the first time an engine was pulled on me in the MU-2 and I did the same thing as I always have, pitch and rudder. It's the same thing you do in a Turbo Commander, King Air, etc.

I still wanna know what piston think is. I think it's all boat think until you fly a jet on a regular basis.

This is pretty interesting. Just to be clear I'm not asking for me I just think the discussion is interesting.

This is how I would summarize up to this point:

1. You'd better be IFR and pilot proficient because things happen fast in a turbo prop. Of course.

2. Getting the MEI rating in the Mits isn't optimal.

3. Getting into the Mits as soon after the rating as possible is optimal.

4. There is a fair amount of misunderstanding about the requirements of the SFAR.

After re-reading the SFAR, I had gotten tripped up on the first few sections saying "No person can manipulate controls, act as PIC, act as SIC, or provide instruction" and the 100 hours ME section just bars acting as PIC.Post SFAR, this still requires no passengers or cargo on-board, so only works on what would have otherwise been a solo flight for the PIC, right?

Or does passing the SFAR initial training qualify you to be SIC, allowing sole manipulation of controls under the watchful eye of a qualified PIC for a flight with cargo/pax?

Let me introduce Pat Cannon:

Mike;

Yes. I am a DPE in the MU-2.

I can give an ME rating, added to either a Private or Commercial certificate.

You are right. Nothing restricts me from giving the practical test for the rating as it has nothing to do with the SFAR, but the new ME pilot could not act as PIC of the MU-2 until he/she has at least 100 ME PIC hours logged.

Pat

Pat is part of Turbine Aircraft Services who handles support for the MU2 for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries America.

So it is theoretically possible for a non ME rated pilot to find a qualified MU2 instructor, learn the SFAR and pass those standards, then do an ME check ride with Pat, and get his ME rating.

From that point on, the pilot can LOG PIC time but cannot ACT as PIC until he accumulates 100 hours PIC time.

It is better and more cost effective to get a "quickie" ME rating prior to SFAR training so that all of the SFAR training counts as PIC time. That is 12 to 20 hours depending on how long it takes you. Shame to lose that towards the 100 hour requirement.

Mike C.

Once you complete the SFAR training program, you can manipulate the controls of an MU2 as SIC, even with pax or cargo.

The 100 hours requirement is only for ACTING as PIC, not for LOGGING.

This odd distinction between ACTING and LOGGING PIC is damn confusing, no?

Mike C.

Let me introduce Pat Cannon:

Mike;

Yes. I am a DPE in the MU-2.

I can give an ME rating, added to either a Private or Commercial certificate.

You are right. Nothing restricts me from giving the practical test for the rating as it has nothing to do with the SFAR, but the new ME pilot could not act as PIC of the MU-2 until he/she has at least 100 ME PIC hours logged.

Pat

Pat is part of Turbine Aircraft Services who handles support for the MU2 for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries America.

So it is theoretically possible for a non ME rated pilot to find a qualified MU2 instructor, learn the SFAR and pass those standards, then do an ME check ride with Pat, and get his ME rating.

From that point on, the pilot can LOG PIC time but cannot ACT as PIC until he accumulates 100 hours PIC time.

It is better and more cost effective to get a "quickie" ME rating prior to SFAR training so that all of the SFAR training counts as PIC time. That is 12 to 20 hours depending on how long it takes you. Shame to lose that towards the 100 hour requirement.

Mike C.

My belief is that the DPE can give a check ride in any aircraft they are qualified in.

The PTS says this about the AIRCRAFT to perform the checkride in:

Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test

The private pilot—airplane applicant is required by 14 CFR section 61.45 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. This section further requires that the aircraft must:

1. be of U.S., foreign, or military registry of the same category, class, and type, if applicable, for the certificate and/or rating for which the applicant is applying;

2. have fully functioning dual controls, except as provided for in 14 CFR section 61.45(c) and (e); and

3. be capable of performing all Areas of Operation appropriate to the rating sought and have no operating limitations, which prohibit its use in any of the Areas of Operation, required for the practical test.

Nothing in the above prohibits using a turbine aircraft. The words "piston" or "turbine" do not appear anywhere in the PTS document.

Mike C.

I understand this completely, I've just never had a dpe say they could do one. They always needed an authorization to do the ME ride in the MU-2 or King Air as their blanket approval was for piston twins. Maybe a dpe will step up and clarify why they don't want to do multi-rides in turbines?

I thought it was a given to do get the ME ticket in a piston somewhere in a few days the way most do. Best little ME school in the USA is at the Arlington Municipal airport (called MultiEngine Training).

I have nothing against the piston twin, but if a turbine is your goal then I would step straight to that. Most of us are not twenty anymore and the clock is ticking. There is a lot of energy that goes into the ownership experience and I would direct it more towards what my long term goal is.