22 Nov 2025, 19:00 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.  Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 12:22 |
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Joined: 01/09/13
Posts: 1249
Post Likes: +246
Location: Frederick , MD (KHGR)
Aircraft: C421 B36TC 58P
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Username Protected wrote: Just read 26 pages-- Very interesting..
Regarding setting power on a turbo prop-- I always set torque or temp.. which every comes 1st.. Both are limits... Since the engines are derated then the protection is built on the redlines of both torque and temp... On the Garrett Engine -- A TTL ( turbine torque limiter) system could be turned off which enabled you to advance past torque or Temp.. with the system on Fuel was bypassed. Tim, this isn't necessarily true. A manufacturer can limit HP and therefore derate an engine by limiting torque without limiting ITT. Most engines are set up this way with the only exception that I'm aware of being the old -90s that had an artificially low ITT limit. Now there is paperwork to remove that artificial limit. In other words, most derated engines will have a cushion on the torque, but not the ITT. If a manufacturer limited the ITT artificially it would really hurt high altitude performance and that is the name of the game for turbine aircraft.
Craig- Been a while since I flew a turbo prop. Your point makes sense, Limitation of temp and torque..
We always had a rule of thumb on setting power rather than looking in the book every flight but then again we needed this and learned tricks flying 100 hrs per month...The job was already tough enough.
On hot days we were always limited by temp for loads on short runways.
When I read this thread I see lots of good points: I see a trade off of cost of ownership to what you get in the plane.. 30 kts extra for another 500k makes no sense to me but 130 kts I could rationalize. So I guess we all look for a balance of safety, speed , load.. The PC12 is an incredible plane if you can afford it but a Citation may have very close characteristics for a fraction of the initial cost.. It's what you can afford and the trade offs of speed, range, load..
The end game of the sale is important to me.
I do believe Turbo props and Jets are very safe vice the light twins. I'd have no problem with single engine turbo prop but I did in the single recip....
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Good Luck,
Tim
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 14:14 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20761
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
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Username Protected wrote: After reading the debate Jason has solidified my position that if I ever win the lottery I will have a PC-12...guess I should start playing the lottery. A PC-12 is like a Ford Econoline Van. You buy it for the cabin. A lottery winner can find a better choice, one would think, a jet for example. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 14:26 |
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Joined: 05/29/09
Posts: 4166
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Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
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Username Protected wrote: After reading the debate Jason has solidified my position that if I ever win the lottery I will have a PC-12...guess I should start playing the lottery. A PC-12 is like a Ford Econoline Van. You buy it for the cabin. A lottery winner can find a better choice, one would think, a jet for example. Mike C.
Better is like beauty...Its in the eye of the beholder. Is a jet better if it cuts out 1/3 of the airports that you would like to use due to runway length requirements?
If a guy wants to work out of smaller county airports and haul a lot of stuff the PC-12 is pretty hard to beat.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 14:53 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
Post Likes: +13085
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: A PC-12 is like a Ford Econoline Van. You buy it for the cabin. A lottery winner can find a better choice, one would think, a jet for example.
Mike C. Ha, a jet is way cheaper to buy than a PC12. What jet were you thinking of? I can probably trade my PC12 for 2 of them. Not only that, but "Ford Econoline Van" is a bad analogy. The fit and finish of the interior of the PC12 is up there with some of the nicest large jets I've seen. Hop in a Phenom 100 and you'll see how much they cut corners on the mini jets. Seat don't recline. No arm rests. Super lightweight leather or whatever that material is. Wood finish looks more like a stick on decal. Shall we debate new or used?
Last edited on 06 Jan 2015, 15:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 14:56 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Better is like beauty...Its in the eye of the beholder. Is a jet better if it cuts out 1/3 of the airports that you would like to use due to runway length requirements?
If a guy wants to work out of smaller county airports and haul a lot of stuff the PC-12 is pretty hard to beat. There you go. I made it into PDK the other night IFR while a Falcon in front of me went missed and diverted and a Challenger behind me went missed and diverted. Both had to got to ATL. That added at least 2 hours to their trip that day. Of course I still want a jet because I get no respect with a PC12. 
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 15:08 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Why would a jet have to go missed if you made it in Jason? Different minimums, categories? Rain. Wet runway etc. Not the first time I've witnessed this. Minimums are the same.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 15:10 |
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Joined: 07/02/14
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Location: Lakeville, Minnesota (KLVN)
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Username Protected wrote: After reading the debate Jason has solidified my position that if I ever win the lottery I will have a PC-12...guess I should start playing the lottery. A PC-12 is like a Ford Econoline Van. You buy it for the cabin. A lottery winner can find a better choice, one would think, a jet for example. Mike C.
It is utility, styling and performance! Ford has not come up with anything that performs like this.
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ASEL&MEL ASES CFII MEI Former BPPP Instructor
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 15:14 |
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Joined: 04/04/12
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Jason What about using a huge Lincoln Navigator for the analogy   That thing is a beast but it it is beautiful! Eye of the beholder I guess,,, Mark
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 15:16 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Jason What about using a huge Lincoln Navigator for the analogy That thing is a beast but it it is beautiful! Eye of the beholder I guess,,, Mark I do not like how the Pilatus looks. I do love how the inside looks though. It's a really nice plane. If I could stomach the downtime to have new paint and interior done I would have a really pimp ride. Mine right now is more "granola" than I like.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 15:27 |
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Joined: 08/05/11
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Username Protected wrote: After reading the debate Jason has solidified my position that if I ever win the lottery I will have a PC-12...guess I should start playing the lottery. A PC-12 is like a Ford Econoline Van. You buy it for the cabin. A lottery winner can find a better choice, one would think, a jet for example. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 15:35 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Username Protected wrote: A PC-12 is like a Ford Econoline Van. You buy it for the cabin. A lottery winner can find a better choice, one would think, a jet for example.
Mike C. Correct you are there. Now point me in the direction of a jet that can operate on the same cost per mile as the PC-12 and take 10 rowdy, noisy passengers more than 1500 miles? Econoline is da bomb!! Attachment: ManlyEconoline.jpg
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 15:39 |
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Joined: 01/09/13
Posts: 1249
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Location: Frederick , MD (KHGR)
Aircraft: C421 B36TC 58P
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Username Protected wrote: Why would a jet have to go missed if you made it in Jason? Different minimums, categories? Rain. Wet runway etc. Not the first time I've witnessed this. Minimums are the same.
OPS SPECS.. They may be 135 or have operational MINS.. Just because the chart says you can descend to 200 AGL doesn't authorized a pilot to do so.
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Good Luck,
Tim
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 16:09 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote: I made it into PDK the other night IFR What was going on here? Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig. Posted: 06 Jan 2015, 16:15 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote: Now point me in the direction of a jet that can operate on the same cost per mile as the PC-12 and take 10 rowdy, noisy passengers more than 1500 miles? Do you want 10 rowdy noisy passengers? Then by all means, take the PC-12. If YOU want a personal airplane, then a smaller jet would be ideal, IMO. As I said, you buy the PC-12 for the cabin. A Nextant 400 would come close to PC12 cabin for the same range and price per mile (though it isn't technically "new"). Quote: Econoline is da bomb!! Like the PC-12, it serves a role. Each plane has a purpose. Mike C.
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