Todd - you may be trying hard to convince yourself that a Malibu is what you need next, and that maybe the case, but don't kid yourself into believing it is a long range, efficient load hauler, for non-stop Midwest to Florida family trips with bags - that, it is not. Otherwise, we'll be reading of yet another airplane sale in a few months. The Malibu is a good plane and fills a specific niche, but it is load limited, and the earlier ones had troublesome engines.

To do 1,000 nm non-stop with IFR reserves in a Malibu, you pretty much will need all 120 gallons of fuel which will leave you about 550 lbs of payload in the best of cases (depending on what's installed). Those would be 4 very small adults... and their toothbrushes. If winds become a factor, and they always will, then you'll be making stops. The JetProp mod doesn't do much to improve the load limitations of the PA46, but it does make it a hot rod with a much more reliable powerplant, allowing you to climb faster and get to your destination in less time.

Non-stop, 300 to 600 nm is the sweet spot for these planes (Malibu or JetProp) if you want to bring the family along. From what you are describing, and to keep it under 200K, you don't have many options. 200K is not going to buy you new or a squawk fee cream puff, so MX will be an issue and you will have surprises along the way.

For 1,000 nm vacation trips with family, perhaps a well cared for straight 414 or 421B could fill in the gap if you do your homework, have a great pre-purchase and count on some dosage of good luck.

By the way, the hull value is only a part of what plays into the cost of insurance, so the conclusion that 3x hull value = 3x insurance cost is incorrect. The insurance guys can probably clarify this better, but my guess is it would increase the cost by 30-40% worst case, not 3x. As an example, we are looking at buying an a/c right now, and the difference in insurance cost for a 35% increase in hull value is 7% - not 35%. Your experience level and certifications are a lot more relevant.

I sold a nice Malibu two years ago for $225.

My first year insurance at $275K hull, $1MM smooth, 0 time in type (700TT, CFI) was $4K/yr.

Jetprops have low useful load because they have 150 or 160 gallons fuel. The engine itself is lighter and the overall UL is very much dependent on the donor airframe. Converted Malibus generally have reasonable full fuel UL (as much as 600 lbs). Later airframes with 160 gal fuel can, as noted, have double digit full fuel payload. It's an open secret that almost everyone flies them substantially over gross. For comparison, though, the meridian (same airframe) is a 5100 lb MGW wheras the Jetprop is 4300. So a Jetprop 400 lbs over gross is still much lighter than a Meridian. While obviously illegal, I think there are good arguments to be made that a Jetprop moderately over gross is no less safe than a Malibu at gross.

That said, the Jetprops at full fuel are good for 750nm in 3 hrs. For 250-500nm trips, fill the plane to 130 gallons (easy to do - use the inboard fuel caps) and you have a better UL.

55% power, 12gph, 190KTAS at FL250 would get you 1000nm in a little over 60 gallons. You could do that trip with 80 gallons and have 820 lbs payload if need be. Todd's family weighs 640 lbs.

A 421 or 414 is a great plane, but the last I would buy. A 421 will burn 38 GPH on 190 knots and does not have any more payload than a Malibu. It also has engines that are about $120k to overhaul if you do the props at the same time. Too much airplane for my needs.

Now, my trip is actually 900 NM and I believe the Malibu will do 190 knots on roughly 13.5 GPH block to block maximum (I think it burns about 12-12.5 GPH at that speed). If that is the case, I can limit the fuel to 90 gallons which still gives me more than 1 hour fuel reserve on my 900 NM trip. 90 gallons is 540 pounds. My family is 640 lbs. That is 1180 lbs. Throw in 120 lbs of bags (that would be a lot) and you are at gross weight going non stop. Of course, any significant headwind means that I may have to put on more fuel and ship some bags to stay legal.

When compared to my old Duke which cost much less to purchase it is still a better traveling machine. The Duke would burn 35 GPH at 190 knots and burned 66 GPH in the climb. It used roughly 175 gallons to make the trip which means you had to carry 220 gallons to have the same reserve. 220 gallons was 1320 lbs in fuel and it had a useful load of 2080, so not much more useful and burned 3x times the fuel.

The other thing to consider is keeping current. I don't fly the King Air very much anymore and for 40 hours of flying per year I am not willing to go to school and spend an hour of so each month staying sharp on a twin, so I am taking that into account.

55% power, 12gph, 190KTAS at FL250 would get you 1000nm in a little over 60 gallons. You could do that trip with 80 gallons and have 820 lbs payload if need be. Todd's family weighs 640 lbs.

Mine will definitely sit in one for 4.5 hours that is pressurized and quiet with A/C. Big difference sitting in a comfortable pressurized cabin with no noise and lots of room vs sitting in a loud and cold small cabin.

My family will do 5 hours. I don't do it often but if I do, its at night when the kids will sleep.

Glenn

Alex-
Generally speaking what you state is true. As the value of the hull increases the 'rate' typically drops so it isn't a straight line calculation to determine the cost of insuring 3X the value of an asset.

It should be noted that there is a big difference between old Malibu useful load and Malibu Mirage useful loads. The continental malibu's burn less fuel and have lighter weight interiors and generally have higher useful loads.

My plane, for example, has a useful load at present of 1346lbs. So even with 120 gallons of fuel, I have 554lbs of payload. That is easy no wind range of 1200 miles with reserve. Go with 100g and I have 686lbs to put in the plane. Can pick up another 26lbs of UL and a place to bolt down a camping toilet by popping out the seat behind the pilot too. I don't have too many 200lb folks I need to fly around for work or personal, so 600lbs goes a long way for me.



As for folks riding in the cabin for long periods of time - my wife and kids have endured many a 6+ hour flight in the plane. Yet to have a complaint. It is a stand up cabin for my son :-) My wife has said she prefers a 6 hour trip in the Malibu to a 3 hour trip in a car. She also has yet to complain about peeing in bags. She is a keeper.

Great picture Anthony. The Malibu is indeed a beautiful cabin. Any mom / family would immediately approve.

4.5 hours won't do your trip in a Malibu. All it takes is a headwind, reroute for weather, missed approach, etc. to turn that into a 6 hour flight. That could quickly sour the whole experience then you're back to sending them commercial. The pain of one bad long flight will last multiples as long as the joy of a dozen perfect flights, and there are few perfect flights.

I'm just saying, I wouldn't count on making that trip nonstop often with the family. It gives you a lot of flexibility to trade fuel for bags if you stop for lunch in South GA or North FL.

That said, I'm watching this and the Malibu costs thread intently. Conti powered Malibus make a lot more sense for me when I think about it than a Baron 58 or C340. My mission is twelve or fifteen solo trips around this side of the Rockies with a handful of family trips thrown in. The solo trips look a lot better burning 17gph and the 1000+ mile range is awesome for when it's just me.

Does anyone know or can someone measure the next time they are at the plane how big the rear cabin area is in the PA46? I've never been in one and would really like to know how much bigger it is than my PA32. Width across the hips on the 2nd and 3rd row and distance between the club would be awesome.


Anthony, you're lucky that your wife will do that. Mine has done 4 hours in the Six. All I'm saying is don't count on that before trying it a few times. If your family will do it, great, but don't count on it.

4.5 hours won't do your trip in a Malibu. All it takes is a headwind, reroute for weather, missed approach, etc. to turn that into a 6 hour flight. That could quickly sour the whole experience then you're back to sending them commercial. The pain of one bad long flight will last multiples as long as the joy of a dozen perfect flights, and there are few perfect flights.

I'm just saying, I wouldn't count on making that trip nonstop often with the family. It gives you a lot of flexibility to trade fuel for bags if you stop for lunch in South GA or North FL.

That said, I'm watching this and the Malibu costs thread intently. Conti powered Malibus make a lot more sense for me when I think about it than a Baron 58 or C340. My mission is twelve or fifteen solo trips around this side of the Rockies with a handful of family trips thrown in. The solo trips look a lot better burning 17gph and the 1000+ mile range is awesome for when it's just me.

I've never flown in a pressurized piston so I'm used to picking my way around weather. I didn't think about how being at FL200+ allows you to essentially draw a line from airport to airport and fly it. That's nice. These couple of threads are going to cost me $300k not too far in the future.