02 Jan 2026, 16:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50  Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 01:03 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12837
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
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Username Protected wrote: Few SF50 buyers will be in a class where they don't care about what it costs to fly, so marketing alone won't seal the deal. You have to deliver capability for cost.
. Circling back to my original comments, if the SF50 meets some basic, threshold level of performance, it will sell. Because it's a jet. And a jet makes your $&%^ bigger.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 01:24 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20986
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: And a jet makes your $&%^ bigger. Are you saying SF50 pilots are compensating for an inadequately sized $&%^? Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 01:41 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
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Username Protected wrote: I live in a world of marketing and branding. I think you may ignore that aspect of Cirrus to your peril. Today's Dilbert was on point: http://dilbert.com/2014-12-18/Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 08:31 |
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Joined: 03/09/08
Posts: 1851
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Location: 2U7 Stanley, ID and KJWN Nashville, TN
Aircraft: V35A
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Username Protected wrote: Today's Dilbert was on point: http://dilbert.com/2014-12-18/Mike C.
Then why don't you own the most successful aircraft company in the history of mankind?
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 08:37 |
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Joined: 02/02/09
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Aircraft: M20E
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Better yet- why don't engineers run the world? There is a question to crash an engineers brain...
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Ipc, BFR.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 08:40 |
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Joined: 12/27/08
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Location: St Louis, MO
Aircraft: Out of airplane biz
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Username Protected wrote: Better yet- why don't engineers run the world? Because they have the best people skills.
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There's no difference between those that refuse to learn and those that can't learn!
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 08:56 |
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Joined: 01/11/10
Posts: 3833
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Location: (KADS) Dallas, TX
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If you told engineers to design the perfect 6 place jet…
25 years later you would be ready to build your first prototype, maybe
The cost estimate would be in the $215M to $235M range (todays dollars).
The wiring harness hold downs would be machined out of 6AL-4V titanium to +/- .0001", but there wouldn't be any drink holders.
The good news is you could use the Honda Jet as a project timeline.
You'd need a hell of a sales team.
Last, it would have at least TWO engines, probably three just to be sure.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 09:07 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote: I live in a world of marketing and branding. I think you may ignore that aspect of Cirrus to your peril. Today's Dilbert was on point: http://dilbert.com/2014-12-18/Mike C.
Steve Jobs?
C'mon. Anyone can go to college, be told what to study and pass a test. It means nothing.
Go out and use your knowledge to create a product that sells and I'll call you "smart".
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 09:08 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26338
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote: Better yet- why don't engineers run the world? Because they have the best people skills.
Aren't you people listening? I have "people skills". I talk to the engineers so the customers don't have too. What's wrong with you people?
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 09:14 |
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Joined: 01/11/10
Posts: 3833
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Location: (KADS) Dallas, TX
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Username Protected wrote: Aren't you people listening? I have "people skills". I talk to the engineers so the customers don't have too. What's wrong with you people? Awesome quote, "The Bobs" know what going on here.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 09:58 |
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Joined: 11/10/13
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Username Protected wrote: Better yet- why don't engineers run the world? Because they have the best people skills.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 11:02 |
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Joined: 04/04/14
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Location: Boonton Twp, NJ
Aircraft: B757/767
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Username Protected wrote: If you told engineers to design the perfect 6 place jet…
25 years later you would be ready to build your first prototype, maybe
The cost estimate would be in the $215M to $235M range (todays dollars).
The wiring harness hold downs would be machined out of 6AL-4V titanium to +/- .0001", but there wouldn't be any drink holders.
The good news is you could use the Honda Jet as a project timeline.
You'd need a hell of a sales team.
Last, it would have at least TWO engines, probably three just to be sure. Not all engineers are that way. There is a time for "perfection" and there is a time for "heat it up red hot, beat it into place and weld it back together and try again". Airplanes are somewhere in the middle. Why don't I run the world as an engineer? I'm too honest for my own good. I have a bad habit of informing management of better ways. My last job, I was "exiled" to be the king of the field engineers by our manager who didn't understand how our tech worked, promised impossible things to clients, and then promoted "bad engineers" (read, the impractical can't design a way to drain a boot if you put the directions on the heel type) because they played golf instead of getting equipment ready for a critical offshore job.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 19 Dec 2014, 11:22 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20986
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Better yet- why don't engineers run the world? It is beneficial if you think they don't. Engineers understand the stereotyping of us exhibited here is a coping mechanism for people who don't or can't understand what we do. We make allowances and move on. Engineering, at least as my company practices it, is an intensely social exercise conducted among humans with a great deal of awareness and empathy with the stake holders. In the end, bashing engineers doesn't change the fact the SF50 is crippled by a disconnect between the "vision" and reality. The bashing is just a reaction to not having adequate logical arguments to present. Mike C.
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