BeechTalk - BT - Pilatus is with out doubt the greatest Turbo Prop ever built

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Dec 2014, 14:39

Username Protected wrote:

I hate car analogies. They're not accurate at all. My Ferrari is MUCH faster than my SUV and hauls MUCH less.

TBM is just a smaller Pilatus and therefore faster. I think they have the same range. I cruise 270. TBM 850's don't cruise much faster than that do they? 20 knots or less maybe?

If you don't need the larger cabin and the lav get the TBM. Makes sense to me.

A bit faster than that. I demoed one two years ago. I recall fairly consistent 315 from FL26 all the way to FL310 so about 40knots faster than a PC12NG.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Dec 2014, 16:28

I remember sitting in a new TBM700 year at the AOPA Fly-In and the sales person said ... "no ... there is no VNE". It's nice and extremely good quality.

I have flown a PC12 and it feels like fine quality. I like the size and the potty.

I have owned a JetProp Malibu and it's not the same class.

The King Air C90A is the same class - quality as the PC12 or TBM I believe and the bag potty is acceptable for how I use the airplane.

I enjoy turning 2 engines and with this airplane the buy in was reasonable. As cheap as the JetProp was! Hard to believe. Turbo-props are more accessible than ever.

Mike

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Dec 2014, 23:35

Username Protected wrote:

2009 meridian asking prices are a joke. Want an ndh, 800tt 2008 for $850 I can get you one.

Sure, I'll take a NDH, 800TT, 2008 Meridian for $850k. Where?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Dec 2014, 23:38

Username Protected wrote:

You can get a 500 tt 2010 TBM 850 for around $2.5m. Thats a good value vs a new 900 at $3.7m.
Its all about cost and versatility, a TBM 900 is about the same speed as a Mustang but as more range, use less fuel and can land at more airports.

A Mustang is faster by at least 20kts, and I would guess up higher it is even more. Don't forget the Mustang can fly at least 2 miles higher. That can be a big factor with weather on some days. Don't get me wrong. I'd take either plane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 00:08

Username Protected wrote:

The TBM I would suggest would be closer to an BMW M3.

Tim

Yes. That's a much better analogy.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 00:44

Username Protected wrote:

You can get a 500 tt 2010 TBM 850 for around $2.5m. Thats a good value vs a new 900 at $3.7m.
Its all about cost and versatility, a TBM 900 is about the same speed as a Mustang but as more range, use less fuel and can land at more airports.

A Mustang is faster by at least 20kts, and I would guess up higher it is even more. Don't forget the Mustang can fly at least 2 miles higher. That can be a big factor with weather on some days. Don't get me wrong. I'd take either plane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 00:47

We gotta give the PC-12 more then a Chevy status!!! It's at a minimum an Cadillac Escalade... TBM is E63 AMG maybe... If it were me then I'd be flyinc a PC-12 all day long! I love the rush of a fast exotic car, but when I want to be comfortable on a trip with some friends I take big ass caddy..

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 00:50

Username Protected wrote:

We gotta give the PC-12 more then a Chevy status!!! It's at a minimum an Cadillac Escalade... TBM is E63 AMG maybe... If it were me then I'd be flyinc a PC-12 all day long! I love the rush of a fast exotic car, but when I want to be comfortable on a trip with some friends I take big ass caddy..

Awesome picture of you Tony on the back of this months Twin & Turbine magazine. You're a star.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 00:58

Username Protected wrote:

Actually, TBM 900 is a bit faster at its respective ceiling than a mustang at FL410. TBM will hit about 325 there, a Mustang about 315, so let's call it a wash.

Why compare them at their max altitude? If I owned either I would compare them at their fastest altitude if I was comparing speeds. From what I can see it is around 340kts for the Mustang. If I had the choice, I would take 340kts at FL390 versus 320kts or 330kts at FL290. My point was that extra altitude gets you around some weather the TBM could not get over. You can also take advantage of better winds there.

Of course, I don't have that choice today. Wouldn't it be nice?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 08:49

Username Protected wrote:

Actually, TBM 900 is a bit faster at its respective ceiling than a mustang at FL410. TBM will hit about 325 there, a Mustang about 315, so let's call it a wash.

Why compare them at their max altitude? If I owned either I would compare them at their fastest altitude if I was comparing speeds. From what I can see it is around 340kts for the Mustang. If I had the choice, I would take 340kts at FL390 versus 320kts or 330kts at FL290. My point was that extra altitude gets you around some weather the TBM could not get over. You can also take advantage of better winds there.

Of course, I don't have that choice today. Wouldn't it be nice?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 09:23

Username Protected wrote:

A Mustang is faster by at least 20kts, and I would guess up higher it is even more. Don't forget the Mustang can fly at least 2 miles higher. That can be a big factor with weather on some days. Don't get me wrong. I'd take either plane.

No once the Mustang has to stop for gas because it has less than half the range of the TBM.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 09:24

Username Protected wrote:

We gotta give the PC-12 more then a Chevy status!!! It's at a minimum an Cadillac Escalade... TBM is E63 AMG maybe... If it were me then I'd be flyinc a PC-12 all day long! I love the rush of a fast exotic car, but when I want to be comfortable on a trip with some friends I take big ass caddy..

I always call my Pilatus "The Range Rover of Airplanes".

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 11:55

Username Protected wrote:

A Mustang is faster by at least 20kts, and I would guess up higher it is even more. Don't forget the Mustang can fly at least 2 miles higher. That can be a big factor with weather on some days. Don't get me wrong. I'd take either plane.

No once the Mustang has to stop for gas because it has less than half the range of the TBM.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 12:18

Username Protected wrote:

The specs show range for the TBM is around 1500NM. Not sure what power setting that is at. The Mustang is about 1300NM. That is less than half? You might want to check your math. Besides, what does stopping for gas have to do with the topic at hand; topping weather at FL390 versus FL290?

Greg,

I'd like to see a mustang do a 1300NM trip. If you want to compare apples to apples, that is top cruise speed range, real world 200nm alternate. Mustang is a 900nm aircraft, a TBM 850 is a 1200nm aircraft. Real world difference at a 1000NM miles is zero time, but at 1200NM is at least an hour advantage to TBM plus about 140gallons of fuel. Useful load is about the same. 4 people total plus luggage. Mustangs main advantage is the pisser.

You might be able to clear some more weather at at FL410 than FL310 but not much more. In my 15 years of playing passenger and/or SIC on jets and turboprops, I find that things either top out at about FL260 or you need a Citation X or Gulfstream to top it. When I flew around in KA90, we were in the muck all the time. Now in a KA350, at FL290 to FL310, I don't remember being in IMC at all last year during cruise.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Dec 2014, 12:31

Greg,

Also, you need to take a look at runway numbers hot and high, places like Aspen, Telluride and Jackson Hole. Did not do a proper analysis on TBM in this case, but a jet like Mustang and Phenom 100 really leaves a lot of be desired. At KJAC for example, as long as the temperate is below 90, KA350 is still fuel full and full payload to meet the required climb gradients both north and south. A Mustang just cannot pull this off, unless you violate FARs and assume no engine failure, which then makes you no safer than a TBM. Yes, I've seen it done all the time. Fully loaded Mustangs, Phenoms, CJ1 leaving Jackson at 2PM in July with the temps in the 90s. If they were to lose an engine, I'd rather be in a TBM with 65knot stall speed. Well, actually, I'd rather be in a KA350.