I'm not convinced you can run a baron on $30k per year. You can easily spend $2k/month just on fuel.

Conservative??
Todd, It is really not that expensive.

Pay 300k for the airplane; that is the expense.
Fly 30 hrs. at 28gph is $4,500 per year for fuel. Own your own hangar and the ground lease is 975.
Annual service 4,500, self insure and you are flying a Baron for $10k per year.
Show me another twin that can do this.
Conservative + Safety = Twin engine
I think smart money buys a Baron.

I have seen some of the most beautiful airplanes on this site. Magnificent! well thought out upgrades that meet the owners standards based on there needs and expectations.
It's all good.
An Airplane is an asset. An asset that some people would rather to touch and feel.
Fly it whenever you want, on your terms and on your schedule and feel good about it.
These are Supermodels and they make your life great. They will show and do exactly what they are told and never complain.
All I can say about the demand for these wonderful airplanes is that they were the first. The demand was there and it has evolved. Anytime you saturate a market the demand
is still there; it just gets diluted.[/quote]


Greg,

You are not even close on the numbers:

First, you can EASILY earn 6% on $300k which is worth $18k per year. $4,800 per year for fuel. Hangars cost money also - whether you leaxse or not. If you spend $200k to build a hangar that money is worth $12,000. If you chose NOT to insure your bird that is fine, but you are OUT up to $300k. Not a good idea considering the amount of times Barons get geared up. That is a $100k problem when it happens. So, add another $4k for insurance to protect your investment. You are now at $38,800 and are LOSING money on the plane you own that is depreciating. We have not began to talk about break downs on the road that will cost you much more than home and resrves for upgrades and future maintenance. A $300k twin is a $45k per year airplane - minimum. That works out to $1500 per hour. The KA200 will outrun the Baron by 90 knots. It is actually cheaper to charter and you have no liability and no worries.

Now, if you LOVE screwing around with old planes trying to keep them running or you have no problem dumpoing $100k into engines, $20k into paint, $10k into interior, and $75k into a panel to make a nice plane that MAY not have issues later - then by all means buy a twin and dump the money into it knowing you will never see that money again. For me, this makes little sense when so many other options are available.

Well, it's kind of pointless to say what it costs to run a plane per year without specifying the miles that need to be traveled, the base location, number of passengers, and weight of baggage that needs to be hauled.

My point is that if you can put $600K into a 58, you can afford to operate a twin turbine, and in the not so distant future, some of the older single engine turbines.

The OPs mission is only for a 200nm plane that will fit a standard T, so a Baron may well be the best fit for the mission, but I would personally keep the investment at $200 or less and use the rest for other fun things. In my opinion there's not much difference in a $200K Baron and a $600K Baron.

I agree Craig but you can say that about any plane including a Bonanza. Also i would up 200k to 300k, but beyond that I agree that it's decreasing returns to scale.

Todd,
200k for a hangar?? Not even close

I own nine of them of which I built 8 brand new. They don't even cost 50k each; radiant heated with automatic Schweiss doors that I can open and close from inside my airplane.

We cannot discuss expenses without a lot more data. Everyone flies differently. I know what I spend and it works for me.

C'mon Todd Diversify, Pride of ownership, you live once.
I have never seen a Brinks truck at a funeral.

I agree, but I have also seen families have to pay for their father's funeral because the father did not plan well. I never want to be a burden on anyone because of reckless spending.

You are correct on the hangar - sorry, I was thinking of an office style hangar. Either way, it will cost $500/mo in most areas when you figure all-in costs or $250/mo to rent one mo to mo.

If you love flying then by all means spend what you want. I still say the AIRPLANE will not change your wife's desire to fly with you. I have seen many people make this mistake including myself. I was spending $700/hr to fly trying to make everyone in the plane happy. I am now doing it for under $125/hr, going faster, and with better equipment making myself happy and them as well since there is no longer tension.

Greg,

You are not even close on the numbers:

First, you can EASILY earn 6% on $300k which is worth $18k per year. $4,800 per year for fuel. Hangars cost money also - whether you leaxse or not. If you spend $200k to build a hangar that money is worth $12,000. If you chose NOT to insure your bird that is fine, but you are OUT up to $300k. Not a good idea considering the amount of times Barons get geared up. That is a $100k problem when it happens. So, add another $4k for insurance to protect your investment. You are now at $38,800 and are LOSING money on the plane you own that is depreciating. We have not began to talk about break downs on the road that will cost you much more than home and resrves for upgrades and future maintenance. A $300k twin is a $45k per year airplane - minimum. That works out to $1500 per hour. The KA200 will outrun the Baron by 90 knots. It is actually cheaper to charter and you have no liability and no worries.

Now, if you LOVE screwing around with old planes trying to keep them running or you have no problem dumpoing $100k into engines, $20k into paint, $10k into interior, and $75k into a panel to make a nice plane that MAY not have issues later - then by all means buy a twin and dump the money into it knowing you will never see that money again. For me, this makes little sense when so many other options are available.

Fly what you want and are able to fly. Honestly, it's just that easy.

Jesse, what did you pay for the 58P with G600??

[quote="Todd Sanderson"

KA90 - old but solid, but still not what I would do.

In fact, I would charter a nice KA200 for $1700 per hour instead. 30 hours would more than take care of my trips. $50,000 per year and I sit in the back having a bloody Mary while the pilots do all the work. That is still cheaper than owning a Baron at $300k and I do nothing but enjoy the trip.

Then again, I am not rich and I don't like what I see coming in hte future, so I am probably more conservative than just about anyone here. I don't want much of my wealth wrapped up in an airplane.[/quote]


Todd,

First let me say that I enjoy reading your posts, there is usually a lot of meat to digest and I enjoy the meals. Having said that I also find myself sometimes wondering how you get from point A to point B.

Your calculus of renting a King Air for 30 hours works out to about three trips per year. In case you haven't chartered one recently, and you dont have some kind of a sweetheart deal with uncle Vinney, you're likey paying for the dead head back to your point of origin or their home base.

So, a 2.75 hour trip up and back with dead head charges works out to about 30 hours when you do that three times. You say you're not a rich man but yet you're signing up for a $50,000 tab for three round trip charters to Florida and back, interesting.

As for preferring a 300-500M turbine over a Baron, go for it if you want. I wouldn't be interested in putting my family in a clapped out aircraft just so I can say that I fly a turbine. Please understand that I mean no disrespect, but this notion that you're better off operating a cheap ragged out turbine on the cheap verses an affordable piston twin/single seems quizzical.

I understand that what is right for my family may not be a good fit for your family. It's nice to have choices but if you're lusting for a King Air over a Baron l suggest that you have more room in your budget than just 500M.

Best wishes,

Chales,
We were talking about a threshold of 30 hrs. per year. at 5.25 per gallon with a burn of 28gph the equation equals $4410. per yr.
Using this math. To spend 30k per year you would have to fly a Baron for 204hrs.
Feel free to check my math.
BTW. Cheapest gas on the east coast is 0B1 currently at $5.05 last I checked. I own 8 hangars there.

I think it was $175k down, and 175k over the next 18 months.....but who's counting? Lord knows not me....

I really loved and hated that plane. Lots of love in the end. I thought it was good to go for years to come and then Jim got stuck with a cracked case shortly after purchase from me. At least it was the high time motor (at tbo or close iirc). We had topped it and had done every accessory. Even lifters. Should have just ordered a motor right off. Living and learning I am.

Hey, I seem to be strengthening your argument here....

:D

Chales,
We were talking about a threshold of 30 hrs. per year. at 5.25 per gallon with a burn of 28gph the equation equals $4410. per yr.
Using this math. To spend 30k per year you would have to fly a Baron for 204hrs.
Feel free to check my math.
BTW. Cheapest gas on the east coast is 0B1 currently at $5.05 last I checked. I own 8 hangars there.

Hey I resemble that comment!

250 hr per year baron guy.

I agree with you,

My friend is a corporate pilot and his boss flew in his G650 for 340 days last year. The plane cost 65 mil.
There is no formula, it is what it is.. the owner of the plane gets to decide.