All,
I am planning to move to a pressurized airplane next year. I am fairly current on the twin engine options but I have neglected looking at SE options, so I wanted to post this.

I've read a lot of the posts that talk about the P210 and Malibu as parts of other threads but didn't find a recent one about those 2 planes exclusively.

Mission is 80% 2 people, 20% 4 people, mostly flying the triangle between Houston, Denver, Memphis, with an occasional 1.5 hr flight to Central Texas thrown in.

What are the pros/cons of these 2 non-Beech planes?

Input much appreciated.

I think both the Malibu and P210 have nice performance but they are getting pretty old. These are very complicated, high strung airplanes running boots, AC, turbos, pressurization....asking a lot for a piston single. They seem to have some engine reliability issues. How but expand the search to a turbine 210 or turbine malibu? I think you would have better speed, increased reliability and probably lower overall costs.

I have no owned either so my opinion isn't worth much at all, all I know is my friend had a Malibu Mirage and said it was the most expensive airplane he ever owned (including king airs, jets and twins!).

Mike

How much do the 4 people weigh?

And for the purpose of further discussion

Malibu - 1984-1988 Continental TSIO 520 or 550
Mirage 1989-present Lycoming TIO-540
Matrix - unpressurized Mirage, c.2005-present
Meridian - factory turboprop, 500hp PT6-42
Jetprop - STC converted Malibu or Mirage, 550hp PT6-21,-34 or -35

Charles - total about 675 lbs.

What I just posted on the thread that is similar to this one:

I'd pick the Malibu (or Mirage), if you can afford the cost of admission. Stay away from the P210 unless it has one of the new 550 turbo-normalized engines. Check out Dick Collins article on his P210 on "Air Facts Journal". If that doesn't scare you away from a P210 then nothing will.

late P210R is great airframe

Pa46-310p is better with 550, cant say I like the pa46-350p thou...

My cousing had a 350p, moved into a 850 and has reduced cost

pre-buy and research is the key for all

GB

P210
Pro: useful load champion, suitable for backcountry strips, inexpensive, easy to hangar (R models have longer wings)
Con: anemic 3.3 PSI pressurization, limited number of well-maintained examples, dwindling factory support, not cabin class, no real specialty organization or type-dedicated shops

Malibu
Pro: good useful load, amazing fuel economy, clean sheet pressurized design with 5.5 PSI and wing suited for flight levels, still in production, owner organization (MMOPA), several specialty shops (nearest MidWest Malibu in KHUT), lots of dedicated instructors, airframe STC's, benefits that go along with having lots of newer, pricier, airframes floating around.
My malibu had 1300lb useful load. With 675# of people, you could take 105 gallons which would be fine for HOU-DEN.

Mirage:
As Malibu, but not as good on fuel economy (Lycoming not always happy LOP). Later models get heavier and range/payload might become an issue.

Turbine PA46's (factory and STC)
Both are somewhat range constrained. Might be a challenge to do Houson-Denver west bound. ATC altitude constraints around Class B fields really hurt

The Silver Eagle P210 is a fine airplane. By the time O&N gets done doing the conversion, there are no airframe issues. A good friend had one for a while & I have flown with him quite a bit.

A fresh conversion is $750K IIRC.

Patrick can a jet prop reliably do Houston to Denver with reserves and typical ATC handling?

Charles,
Are there any year specific issues to consider with a Malibu? I assume by Malibu one would look up until 1987 or so, I think the Mirage was 1988?

Thanks,
Mark

Yes.

'89 was the first year of the mirage. '88s were continental powered malibu.

The '84/'85/some '86 have hydraulic flaps and gear driven by the same pump. The mid '86-present electric flap is desirable. Likewise a -550 converted airplane. The malibus and some mirages came with a hot plate that is no longer supported. A replacement heated glass windshield is $35k.

Otherwise the general good maintenance / frequent use caveats apply. The most highly respected shops (both pa46 only) are Mead/Midwest Malibu(KHUT) and malibu aerospace in Minneapolis.

Had a P210. Good useful load, but horrible climb performance anywhere near gross - maybe 400-500 FPM. Nose gear can be damaged fairly easily and gear will not extend if you blow a hydraulic line. Single door makes it somewhat uncomfotable to get in and out. Design tends to eat alternators. Engine tough to make run LOP in many cases - Bendix mags help. 185 knot plane on 16-17 GPH. Easy to fly. Decent short field performance.

With all this said, fly at gross on a high DA day at your own risk. My friend crashed taking his family with him. Probably a 7k density altitude day. Took off and stalled it maybe 75 ft up in the air. Once out of ground effect he did not get enough acceleration to maintain altitude requiring more back pressure = more drag. Ended badly.

I have always thought that the Malibu made sense. I think you can get an honest 200 knots at 15-17 GPH and get a 1000 mile range with 4 adults and bags. I never understodd how they did this with a 310HP 520, but it seems to work.

I have done some more research and would rule out the p210. If your are deadset on an malibu, i think an 88 550 conversion is the way to go.

With that said, i have one neighbor and one aquaintance that lost their aircraft due to engine failures taking out their families. I think these malibu/mirage engines whether continental or lycoming seem to fail at a much higher rate than a 550 in a bonanza.

Something to chew on.

Mike