I periodically toy with the idea of purchasing a twin, or half a twin with a buddy, purely for the purpose of getting ME rating/experience/logged ME time. The plane would have to be mechanically sound but avionics and paint could be mediocre.

Because I already own a nicely equipped '71 F33A which my family likes and fits my missions perfectly, I'm not contemplating a premium offering like a Baron.

Was thinking about an Apache as an inexpensive to buy, relatively inexpensive to re-engine, trainer type twin that my friends and I can bomb around in for fun without breaking the bank. Plane would be flown about once a week.

Whenever I say this, someone always pops up and responds that what you really want is a .... (Aztec, Seminole, Twin Commanche, etc).

So, for purposes of conversation, pls share your insights re bargain basement twins with relatively low maintenance costs and relatively simple systems.

Thx!

Tim

Buy Adam's non beech Travelair, then people in beechtalk will talk to you again.

How about some more info on your missions Tim. Pax, UL, distance, needs...

Is this meant to replace your Bo or just tool to build cheap twin time?

I second that. A Travelair with Lycoming 360 engines would be easy to maintain, uses less than 20 gph, and flies at 160kts. They are a very popular plane with flight schools so you could sell it easily. You can pick up nice ones for less than $50,000.

From what I’ve heard they have decent 1 engine performance—much better than most Apaches and lower powered Twin Comanches.

Hi Don.

For the purposes of this exercise, I'm assuming I'm keeping the F33A.

So, mission would be limited to providing (relatively) inexpensive ME time/experience for me and my friends, and cross countries limited to 300 NM mostly.

Mostly VFR + light IFR on top.

Plane needs to be safe,l cheap to keep, fit in a t-hangar, and resaleable in the future.

Don't have anything against considering Beech ME products, just anticipated that the buy-in cost and maintenance/engine overhaul costs would be considerably higher than an Apache.

Just to emphasize, I'm not about to write a check for some time, just doing some preliminary homework to see if this makes any sense at all.

best

Tim

Cheap to overhaul is the kicker here. I suspect even with a very low end overhaul, you're looking at $50-60k all in, including the installs. That kind of throws "cheap" out the window.

I use to own an Apache with 160 hp engines on it. I loved that airplane and we made many trips together.

Overhaul is out of the question for this mission unless you want to end up 80k in the hole. I suggest finding a place that will rent you a Seminol.

Thx for all of the replies so far.

Want to be able to jump into it whenever I want, on short notice, so that sorta rules out renting a flight school plane.

Roger on the cost of overhauls.

Sounds like what I'm hearing so far is that you have to find a twin with lower-time engines and then sell them before they look too much like runouts?

Would love to hear more about the Apache that was well loved.

Tim

Tim,

You did not mention, but I will add, that the airplane needs to be simple and honest to learn to fly and get a multi-engine rating. Safety, cost and a good platform to learn on. That is easy to solve. You have to look no further than the Multi-Engine training market to see what is best even if you don't like the answer... The pedestrian Seminole.

Now, if you are already going to have a ME rating then the options open up some.

Chuck

Travel Air. Good ME training platform, especially for a Bonanza pilot. If you're simply wanting to get your multi rating, it's a quick process. Three days and I was done. If you want to build multi time, then buying a twin might make sense. Otherwise, maybe not.

Ideally want to build ME time, and also stay current.

If it helps with insurance etc. I could get my ME rating before stepping up.

As Chuck points out, just want a fun,forgiving airframe to learn with.

Tim

If you bought a Travelair, you would sell the F33. Same mission very little more operating cost. The others , mostly not so.

You can probably buy a decent Piper Apache for 20-30k. With the extra hangar, insurance and maintenance though, I think you're better off financially just selling the F33A and getting a good solid travel air or Baron and flying that instead for a few years.