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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:03 
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Joined: 05/23/08
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
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2, prop and engine. Same as yours.

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Pistons engines are for tractors.

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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:04 
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Username Protected wrote:
2, prop and engine. Same as yours.

I have only 1. No prop control.


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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
[
Can you explain how 1200 is more than 850 times 2 :scratch:


Because that 1200 is pushing that 1 prop.

2 engines turning 2 props does not equal double horsepower. For example, 1 engine at 1700hp turning 1 prop will be much faster than 2 engines each turning 850. I thought everyone knew this.

As for the website corrections...... I don't care. You go look it all up.


:D so now you don't care about what's on the website, after quoting values from a website. It is jay carney. Never admit anything, never wrong, never answer the question straight.

How much horsepower do you need across 2 engines to equal 1? Does 2 x 1,000 shp equal 1 x 1,000 shp? 2 x 2,000 equal 1 x 1,000. 2x1,000 equivalent to 1x what? where is the equal point? Please teach me what "everyone knows"
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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
:D so now you don't care about what's on the website, after quoting values from a website. It is jay carney. Never admit anything, never wrong, never answer the question straight.

How much horsepower do you need across 2 engines to equal 1? Does 2 x 1,000 shp equal 1 x 1,000 shp? 2 x 2,000 equal 1 x 1,000. 2x1,000 equal alert to 1x what? where is the equal point? Please teach me what "everyone knows"

You're avoiding the answers and trying to act like I am.

It doesn't matter what's on any of the websites. Here's the bottom line....

2 engines at 850 HP each turning it's own prop is not equal to the torque of 1 1700HP engine turning 1 prop. The single with the 1700hp engine will be much faster.

I was a C student. I'm amazed I'm the one explaining this to someone else.


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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:09 
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3 I guess if you count the condition lever but it as nothing to do with setting your torque and ITT? :scratch:


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


Last edited on 28 Jun 2014, 13:12, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:10 
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I'm not following the math. Why is one engine faster? What about airframe design?

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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm not following the math. Why is one engine faster? What about airframe design?

Forget airframe design. Assume both airframes are exactly the same.


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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm not following the math. Why is one engine faster? What about airframe design?


Simple - because a good portion of the additional power from the second engine is used to overcome its own drag and carry its own weight and the weight of the additional fuel it requires. If you want to go fast, adding a second engine is not a good way to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:32 
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An 850 HP engine is producing half the torque on 1 prop compared to the 1700 hp engine. It's not just drag and weight.

A car with 2 850 hp engines will be faster because both engines are powering the same 2 wheels. With and aircraft or boat, each engine has it's own prop. Speed is about the torque given to each prop.


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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:36 
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Joined: 08/03/08
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm not following the math. Why is one engine faster? What about airframe design?

Forget airframe design. Assume both airframes are exactly the same.


That is pretty much the case in the Travel Air/C33 and the Twin Comanche/Comanche pairing. I have flown a PA24 and a PA30 interchangeably, one has 260hp the other 320hp. The twin climbs 200fpm faster and burns 6gph more do do it, in cruise both burned 16gph for 160kts, no real difference. Maintenace wise, 1 more generator, 1 more vacuum pump, 2 extra mags to overhaul and 4 extra spark plugs to gap.

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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
The Pilatus is nice but too big and too slow for me. :D


Have you ordered your 900 yet ;)


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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
That is pretty much the case in the Travel Air/C33 and the Twin Comanche/Comanche pairing. I have flown a PA24 and a PA30 interchangeably, one has 260hp the other 320hp. The twin climbs 200fpm faster and burns 6gph more do do it, in cruise both burned 16gph for 160kts, no real difference. Maintenace wise, 1 more generator, 1 more vacuum pump, 2 extra mags to overhaul and 4 extra spark plugs to gap.

Thank god. A smart guy.

Can you explain this better than me? Keep going.


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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
An 850 HP engine is producing half the torque on 1 prop compared to the 1700 hp engine. It's not just drag and weight.

A car with 2 850 hp engines will be faster because both engines are powering the same 2 wheels. With and aircraft or boat, each engine has it's own prop. Speed is about the torque given to each prop.


There's flawed logic in here. Thrust is thrust. Drag is drag. Weight is weight.

If the point is that, say, a 2000 shp engine produces thrust x, how much thrust is produced by a 1000 shp motor? Less than x/2? Does an engine know if it's on a wing or on the nose?

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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:42 
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Username Protected wrote:

There's flawed logic in here. Thrust is thrust. Drag is drag. Weight is weight.

If the point is that, say, a 2000 shp engine produces thrust x, how much thrust is produced by a 1000 shp motor? Less than x/2? Does an engine know if it's on a wing or on the nose?

No.

1700 is more thrust than 850

with 2 850's it's still only 850.

Florian! Help.


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 Post subject: Re: That PC12 is biiiiiiiig.
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2014, 13:45 
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Joined: 12/16/07
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Pretty much what I found in my A-36 compared to the 58 baron. Baron climbed faster, but cruised only a 10 or 15 knots faster. The 58 wasn't quite twice the gross weight as the 36. It did get off the runway a bit earlier. That's comparing essentially the same fuselage in each plane: A-36 base, the 58 with the second engine. A pretty direct comparison. In addition to that additional engine and associated systems, more fuel to run that second engine and more redundant systems.

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