Does the same rule apply to turbines as pistons, two engines = engine failure twice as likely

Jason's Pilatus was the first plane I took my shoes off before entering....totally gorgeous airplane. Been in both the King air and the Pilatus but don't find it a useful comparison. A better comparison from my perspective is to compare it with a TBM. Again personal perspective, I love the TBM but it does not have the ruggedness of the Pilatus nor as great a useful. My point of comparison was 700c.

The King Air is an awesome twin and best of breed in turbo props in my estimation. It's the choice when you decided on twin with inherent operating costs.

Now back to reality...I won't ever own any of these planes till I get off my a&& and start my own business! Until and if I ever get there, I am officially a gawking tire kicker

That concern wasn't on my list and never will be.

Haha. That's funny.


I tend to like'em "big".

PC12 has seats for 11 also. It's also a fill the tanks and seats airplane. I cruise 275 and have 7 hours of duration.

A 350 will use twice the fuel for the same mission. If I'm burning gas like that, I'll take an extra 150 knots in a Phenom 300.

Of the numbers you posted on the 350....... What part is the "step up"?

Ok few points, where is your 11th seat? We have 10, do they take out the bathroom? The NG will do 275kts or 7 hours, it simply won't do both. To even get 275, you have to be at ISA or cooler, in the low 20s, and sucking down around 450lbs hr. That's 5 hours with an IFR reserve. It's not a fill the tanks and seats airplane either 1140lbs to spread over 10 seats is 114lbs per passenger. Gymnastics team, maybe. The phenom will not hold as much as a 350. It's like asking someone why they bought a Ccaravan instead of a PC12, because it fit a mission. Granted on a given trip the the phenom will go faster and burn less but if you have more stuff than the airplane can legally carry, all those capabilities are useless...

I think it speaks volumes for the 12 when a majority of the Medevac's have shed their KA's and use the 12's exclusively...

I ask again....... What part of the 350 is a "step up"?

I've done several "cost to coast" non stop in the PC12 with 7 plus bags on board.

Can the KA350 do this? Yes. But on a lot more gas. So where is the "step up" part?

I'd rather get a Phenom 300. It's over 150 knots faster, the same size as the Pilatus and goes to 45K'.

What is the max number of PAX any "owner operator" ever WANTS to carry? I'm not a charter outfit. This is why my comparison emphasized SINGLE PILOT. I'll carry 3 couples happily. That's fun. Any more and they can go fly commercial. I don't want 11 people on my airplane. Who does? Even for business, I haul 8 all the time..... I don't want anymore. I tell them to take commercial even if it means me paying for it. I just don't want that many people on my airplane. It doesn't benefit me to be everyone's charter service.

Even if I had a Challenger 300 right now. Yup, I'll haul 6 or 7 with me..... Any more than that and "ya'll can just meet me there". I'm not your free ride. This is my airplane. It's use is to benefit my life and make ME happy.

It speaks to the tighter reimbursement climate in recent years.

It speaks to...... New airplane designs do more on less. A Phenom 300 burns less gas and goes 450 knots.

It's new technology. It's in all these new jets.

A Phenom 300 on a program runs about $500-$600 per hour for MX. At 450 knots and 110 gallons per hour I'll bet it costs the same to run a Phenom 300 as it does my Pilatus.

It speaks to...... New airplane designs do more on less. A Phenom 300 burns less gas and goes 450 knots.

It's new technology. It's in all these new jets.

A Phenom 300 on a program runs about $500-$600 per hour for MX. At 450 knots and 110 gallons per hour I'll bet it costs the same to run a Phenom 300 as it does my Pilatus.

Hey that's great. Has nothing to do with me or probably anyone else on BT.

why is it we always have to rationalize with $$$? Can't we just do w.t.h. we want because that's what makes us happy, or it's what we want to do for any reason the suits us?

JC looks it from a "it gets me where I'm going on half the burn" as the competition. In his world that's what's important because he can take his harem with him! I'm envious on both accounts.

Others have to point out that comparing the 12 to 350, or EM 300 isn't a logical comparison. Who cares? The only things that matter are those that the poor SOB paying all the bills is getting what they want, and feel good about it. That's it. There is nothing else.

Hey that's great. Has nothing to do with me or probably anyone else on BT.

Ok I'll bite. Define "step up" is it speed, range, carrying capability, take off/ landing abilities? It's up to each owner to decide for themselves.

Every owner operator is different, what if he's an older guy with kids and grand kids. Needs to move six couples and some kids. Each mission is different.

What if a second engine makes sense to him? I know the statistics don't support the argument but he's the one stroking the check..

Airplane purchases are not always based on logic, but more on desire. My mission could be filled with a 172, but I wanna go fast and look really good doing it, so I have a faster model V tail.




Taken just an hour ago... max cruise fl 230 a little warm but 400lbs an hour at 262TAS. Book for this condition is 407 lbs and 260TAS. You burn 500lbs first hour plus 500lbs IFR reserve, leaves 1700lbs, 400lbs an hour plus your first hour leaves you at just over 4 hours in this configuration. Go higher to burn less fuel and you go slower, go lower to go faster and you burn more fuel... Plane only holds 2700lbs....

If you do coast to coast with seven and bags, it can be done with smaller people easily, but you'll need a serious tail wind or cruise at lower power, no winds max cruise power you're not going non stop coast to coast.

Phenom 300 holds 8 people and is a nice move from the NG as long as he can give up two seats, PC24 is better, but not available yet. Everyone is different in their needs and desires. If the guy has millions to spend wants two engines and wants to haul his devout catholic family around, more power to him.

PS we're is the 11th seat in executive configured NG?