You are correct but I want to follow Pilatus' prescribed maintenance schedule. I see it as taking care of the investment.

Bingo.

MU2 4 blade props have a 5 year calendar AD and these Hartzell props are now hitting their 3rd cycle since the AD and many more are seeing blades having to be replaced due to lack of dimension left. The AD requires only an "inspection" but is close to the scope of an overhaul so many owners elect to just do it as overhaul. Problem is the term "overhaul" has very specific required actions, one of which is to grind the blades a specific amount back into exact original shape. Well, after a few times of doing that the blades don't have enough material left and must be scrapped. Which adds roughly $20K ($5K each blade) to the cost of the overhaul (which is roughly $9-10k otherwise).

Sometimes an overhaul is actually not a good thing.

Tim,
I feel a plane that is maintained as suggested by the manufacturer has a higher resale value than one that hasn't. It's important to me as I plan on updating the plane every 2 to 3 years.

Not sure.

If I understand things correctly, mandatory/non mandatory maintenance on part 91 aircraft works this way.

Depending if the Pilatus prop overhaul is in section 4 or 5.

If the items are covered in section 4 of the MM (Airworthiness Limitations) then they are mandatory (even under part 91).

For the TBM, the items covered under this section are:
WING LIFE LIMITS
FUSELAGE LIFE LIMITS
TBM 700A fuselage
TBM 700B fuselage
TBM 700C and TBM 850 fuselage
PRATT AND WHITNEY ENGINE LIFE LIMITS
HARTZELL PROPELLER LIFE LIMITS
OXYGEN GENERATOR LIFE LIMITS
OXYGEN CYLINDER LIFE LIMITS (Option)
OPERATION LIMITS [Note: this refers to painting the airframe]

On the other hand, anything that is covered in section 5 of the MM (Time Limits and Maintenance Checks) is optional for Part 91 operators (with the exception of the need for an Annual inspection under Part 43 and compliance with FAA ADs) regardless of any phraseology in the documentation which may say "must" rather than "should".
So, even if a repair station has filed the Socata TBM MM with the FAA as the definition of what it will do when it receives an aircraft for maintenance, since the life related items in section 5 of the MM are defined as "operator responsibility" not "required by continued airworthiness" under the FARs then they remain so, even for a repair station.

So do I need to get my prop overhauled in a couple months or not? It only has 700 hours on it and runs great. The man that owned my plane before me never flew it and I've flown it 300 hours since I bought it.

Luke,

The PC12 market might be different; but in the KA market when I went through this whole process with an acquaintance who buys, sells and manages a few King Airs he actually pointed out a few things which were very counter intuitive, often if you plan to sell the plane again you will save the most money by not doing something or only doing an IRAN. The overhaul will cost you the most.

For an inspection which is because of AD or Life Limit (e.g. KA gear inspection) here is the market breakdown:
-- Overhaul by reputable shop, most valuable. Generally if done just before selling, owner only loses about 30% or so of the cost.
-- IRAN by reputable shop, most economical for seller. Generally if done just before selling, owner only loses 10% or so of the cost. This is generally an indication of a well managed or smartly managed plane.
-- Not done, plane AOG. Unless recent set back by seller, usually indication of other potential issues. Get a massive discount on the plane, can be a good deal for a potential owner who does not mind downtime and wants to spread capital outlays.

If the inspection, overhaul, service is a recommendation. e.g. Props, rubber hoses
-- Overhaul by reputable shop. Generally if done just before selling, owner only loses about 70% or so of the cost.
-- IRAN by reputable shop. Generally if done just before selling, owner only loses 50% or so of the cost.
-- Not done. Minimal discount unless significant time has passed. e.g. if over time for props and hoses by just a couple of years there is minimal discount. If it has not been done for many years, likely there is other deferred MX and potential issues. Buyer beware, preferably stay away.

Tim

This is a repost from another thread in this regard and might mainly apply to older airframes (which was what I happened to own at that time), but basically Hartzell is the last company you want to rely on. Mine had 250hr recurring, 500hr recurring as well as hub inspections. Some airframes have hub inspections every 50hrs, thanks to Hartzell. They'll stick it to you at some point as sure as the sun rises:

They force more SB's into AD's than perhaps any other aerospace company. They lobby hard at the FAA and will stop at nothing to force you to buy either new props or new hubs. It's their business model. When there's a diminishing base, and they know the numbers are small enough not to make too much of a stink, they will stick it to you. You guys are lucky you have strength in numbers still, but for every year they'll get closer. The number of older airframes/engines they've stopped supporting to force you to buy new blades are endless. What's worse, they force their certified repair stations to treat SB's = AD's and will not allow them to comply with the SB alone, or order those parts and still remain certified, which forces the prop shops hand. And there aren't that many prop shops that are not Hartzell certified.

Ask me how I know.

I would go out of my way to avoid them.

You might still be safe for years with Hartzell (I'm not saying they're bad props, not at all) on PC12's because it's a popular airframe and there's strength in numbers, but why feed a company that treats their customers or the little guy that way?

We have the MT 4 blade prop on the PA46. The point about these props is noise reduction. Here in Germany where these props come from noise is a big issue. Being in a lower noise category reduces your airport fees and reduces operational limitations on traffic patterns on week ends, at night etc.
I think in the US this is not an issue. So if you need a new prop the MT can be a good choice. But if your current prop is fine or can be overhauled I would not buy it as an upgrade. On the PA46 the prop seems to deliver similar performance than the Hartzell we had before. A German magazine did upgrade their Piper cheyenne and the result was the same. A noise reduction and no change of performance. When I did order the prop I made them write down the noise value on the order so if that would not be met I would not pay. That worked out fine but as far as I understood they would not write in there any claimed performance gains...

Luke,

The PC12 market might be different; but in the KA market when I went through this whole process with an acquaintance who buys, sells and manages a few King Airs he actually pointed out a few things which were very counter intuitive, often if you plan to sell the plane again you will save the most money by not doing something or only doing an IRAN. The overhaul will cost you the most.

For an inspection which is because of AD or Life Limit (e.g. KA gear inspection) here is the market breakdown:
-- Overhaul by reputable shop, most valuable. Generally if done just before selling, owner only loses about 30% or so of the cost.
-- IRAN by reputable shop, most economical for seller. Generally if done just before selling, owner only loses 10% or so of the cost. This is generally an indication of a well managed or smartly managed plane.
-- Not done, plane AOG. Unless recent set back by seller, usually indication of other potential issues. Get a massive discount on the plane, can be a good deal for a potential owner who does not mind downtime and wants to spread capital outlays.

If the inspection, overhaul, service is a recommendation. e.g. Props, rubber hoses
-- Overhaul by reputable shop. Generally if done just before selling, owner only loses about 70% or so of the cost.
-- IRAN by reputable shop. Generally if done just before selling, owner only loses 50% or so of the cost.
-- Not done. Minimal discount unless significant time has passed. e.g. if over time for props and hoses by just a couple of years there is minimal discount. If it has not been done for many years, likely there is other deferred MX and potential issues. Buyer beware, preferably stay away.

Tim

When I was looking at PC-12s, I heard several PC-12 shops wouldn't sign off the annual if you didn't do all the prescribed maintenance, including the prop overhauls. I discussed the requirement under Part 91 and they didn't care. If you don't do them, they won't sign the aircraft off.

My understanding is there is a limited number of shops that can do the PC-12 annuals because of some special tooling that only Pilatus sells/provides.

I may be way off base here, and I did find some shops that weren't as 'determined', but it did require me to do a little more research. In the end, a prop overhaul isn't that bad, but it is something you have to consider. I was more concerned with the attitude of the shops.

-jason

So do we have a final price for the MT prop for a PIlatus? How much should I get on trade for my 700 hour Hartzell?

Finnoff will give you 20K trade off of 78K for the new 5 blade. I have two different prop shops looking into the value of our used prop. When they get back to me I will post .

$58k? Geez

I thought buying one straight up was $50k?

I was thinking seriously about it but I'm not finding anyone who can tell me actual performance gains. The only consistent positive report is the quieter operation than the 4 blade. I'm going to overhaul the 4 blade and keep flying.

Wait for the 5 blades carbon fiber prop from Hartzell, im sure its coming.