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27 May 2018, 19:43 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


DShannon Aviation (banner)



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 Post subject: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2014, 22:20 
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http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/15/faa-bans-planesharing-startups/

I wasn't expecting any different, but why not promote aviation by helping people get places on empty seats?


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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2014, 22:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/15/faa-bans-planesharing-startups/

I wasn't expecting any different, but why not promote aviation by helping people get places on empty seats?


Leave it to the FAA to screw something up.

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2014, 22:50 
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I understand the Commercial pilot vs Private pilot issue but the rest is pretty foggy.

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2014, 22:57 
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It's a great concept, but advance quoting a price doesn't seem to me to meet the "pro rata share" of the actual cost of the flight criteria.

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2014, 23:34 
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This is entirely NOT surprising, but here is what I find interesting. In their interpretation, the FAA says that they consider advertising on the internet a flight to a specific destination to be "holding out", and thus a common carriage. By that definition, ride sharing to Oshkosh and Sun n Fun would be illegal as well. Wonder how that will play out...
:popcorn:

Also, note that even though FAA gave notice that they consider ride sharing illegal, there is nothing illegal about operating a web site that offers such services. They would have to go after individual pilots if they want to enforce it.


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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 07:19 
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Maybe there should be rules (created by the website owners) on how to post. Make it more like a Facebook post:

Hey everyone, OMG so excited to be going to Bumpkin town this weekend. We're leaving at 4pm on Friday in our 4 seat Bugsmasher, just me and my BFF and we still have 250lbs of useful load, so plenty of safety margin on takeoff. Text me or message me on FB and I'll tell you all the details. #Bumpkin_Town #Rideshare #FAA_runamok


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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 07:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
I understand the Commercial pilot vs Private pilot issue but the rest is pretty foggy.


It's the commercial vs. private operator issue.

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 08:30 
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Interesting in that a former FAA legal counsel was leading the charge for this effort as an employee of one of the ride sharing companies. Damn. Guess that hire didn't work out :-)

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 09:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
Interesting in that a former FAA legal counsel was leading the charge for this effort as an employee of one of the ride sharing companies. Damn. Guess that hire didn't work out :-)


Thats not how things work in DC. I suspect there are many more paychecks to be collected as the issue is appealed, Congress is lobbied to tuck a provision into a bill supporting tax breaks for orphans.

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 09:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
Interesting in that a former FAA legal counsel was leading the charge for this effort as an employee of one of the ride sharing companies. Damn. Guess that hire didn't work out :-)

Well, not quite an "employee."

There are actually two opinions issued in close proximity. The second is the 2014 Winton Interpretation

(Greg Winton is also a former FAA (and US DOJ) lawyer)

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 10:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is entirely NOT surprising, but here is what I find interesting. In their interpretation, the FAA says that they consider advertising on the internet a flight to a specific destination to be "holding out", and thus a common carriage. By that definition, ride sharing to Oshkosh and Sun n Fun would be illegal as well. Wonder how that will play out...
:popcorn:



It very well may be illegal but the FAA choose not to go after those pilots.

The underlying reason may be that it is likely pilots sharing rides who can evaluate the safety of the ride they are taking. The FAA is looking to protect the general public who do not have the ability to evaluate the safety of a ride they are paying for.

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 10:14 
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I think I'm with the FAA here. The ability to share costs worked because it was hard to network with too many people. If these things took off, and I wanted to build time I would find something fun to do in popular places and start whoring myself out every weekend. Beach every weekend, every sec football game. If this worked, time builders would be running de facto charters everywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 10:32 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think I'm with the FAA here. The ability to share costs worked because it was hard to network with too many people. If these things took off, and I wanted to build time I would find something fun to do in popular places and start whoring myself out every weekend. Beach every weekend, every sec football game. If this worked, time builders would be running de facto charters everywhere.


I'd have no problem with someone doing that to build time. I feel we are way over regulated.

And I'm not sure the charter operator brings much more safety to the table than a commercial pilot with an airworthy plane, and no 135 certificate. The certificate just brings more paperwork, control and regulation.

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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 11:09 
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I agree the maint regs probably aren't better than a smart 91 owner. But they're better than a cheapskate, poor judgment or poor knowledge guy. The 135 regs (e.g. landing distance) also ensures a conservative operating mindset that prevents a race to the edge of the envelop and ensures most laypeople will be operating within a risk territory most people would accept.

These plane sharing apps would make it super easy to get an aztec and fly it around at gross for $25/hr out of pocket in all weather, with no oversight and potentially under 100 hours TT. It's a shame, but I think the FAA's being reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: FAA Bans Planesharing Startups..
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2014, 12:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think I'm with the FAA here. The ability to share costs worked because it was hard to network with too many people. If these things took off, and I wanted to build time I would find something fun to do in popular places and start whoring myself out every weekend. Beach every weekend, every sec football game. If this worked, time builders would be running de facto charters everywhere.


I'd have no problem with someone doing that to build time. I feel we are way over regulated.

And I'm not sure the charter operator brings much more safety to the table than a commercial pilot with an airworthy plane, and no 135 certificate. The certificate just brings more paperwork, control and regulation.


Damn, I seem to remember a guy i knew telling all his friends he would be willing to fly to places so they could have lunch and split the bill.. after lunch his friends always seemed to have things to do, but he would go rest from the flight at the FBO and they would later fly home and maybe have drinks together afterwards. :hide:

Sometimes, his friends would change their minds and spend the night, but he always seemed to come home to his family or just return the rented airplane to the flight school. But they would link back up, because that's what friends are for! :peace:

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