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 Post subject: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2011, 22:29 
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Company: It's Rented,LLC.
Location: LSUISIANA
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Anybody have a clue what the actual cost per/gallon of 100LL would be, say if you would buy 500 or 1000 gallons at a time deliverd anywhere USA?

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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2011, 22:32 
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
Anybody have a clue what the actual cost per/gallon of 100LL would be, say if you would buy 500 or 1000 gallons at a time deliverd anywhere USA?

Last time I checked, 1000 gal was available at about $1/gal less than the cheapest FBO price on my home field. That doesn't necessarily mean that the FBO makes $1/gal on fuel sales, there's some significant other costs involved.

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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2011, 22:33 
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Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Aircraft: Loitering
Bobby in deridder they make 1.00 per gallon, so at current price they get it for 3.38 gallon.

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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2011, 22:34 
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Joined: 08/09/10
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Location: L38
Aircraft: Baron 58P
Username Protected wrote:
Anybody have a clue what the actual cost per/gallon of 100LL would be, say if you would buy 500 or 1000 gallons at a time deliverd anywhere USA?


I just landed in Central Mississippi this past weekend at a private strip. Guy had 1000 gallon tank onsite that he said he was buying 100LL for 3.41 a gallon. Gave me 20 gallons for helping him out in moving an airplane, I asked to fill up and pay him 3.41 and he said he was too low, he had bought that gas 3 weeks ago. So although un-verified I offer it up anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2011, 22:34 
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Aircraft: C55
I looked into it and it is not economically feasible. To get the big price break you have to take a full 8000 gallon load right from the tanker. Getting less than that means you will be buying from a jobber. If you wnat to know what the cost of 100LL is look at KFMY fuel prices. They mark the fuel up 50 cents per gallon from their actual cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 00:00 
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Joined: 12/12/07
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Company: MBG Properties
Location: Knoxville, TN (KDKX)
Aircraft: 1972 Bonanza V35B
You know you are getting ripped off if fuel prices are at $8.45. Do these people at Teterboro really want to sell fuel, or are New York area pilots just insensitive to prices?

Lowest price in the U.S.:

Louisiana 3F3 $3.29

Highest prices in the U.S.:

TEB First Aviation Services, Inc. $7.82
TEB Atlantic Aviation $8.41
TEB KTEB Signature Flight Support $8.45

Accept the fact that in any business gross profit dollars is the most important measuring stick...dollars pay overhead and, hopefully, are greater than expenses and, if so, yield a profit.

For a long, long, time I have held off about venting on 100LL fuel margins. I spent about 25 years in the wholesale/retail fuel business with 65,000,000 gallons annual volume in my last venture many years ago. I learned the business. I learned how to manage price for the best price/volume ratio for maximum profit.

I guess I'll post on avgas now. In the "old days" profit margin was on a cents per gallon basis. On that basis if one paid $.30 for fuel he was happy with a $.10/gallon profit and sold fuel for $.40. When fuel cost went to $.40 the same person was happy with a selling price of $.50, still a dime per gallon profit.

Later, fuel was sold like other retail products, on a margin % of the selling price. If cost was $.75 and selling price was $1.00 the profit margin was 25%.

Thirty years went by and aviation fuel costs rose gradually until the cost of a tanker load, with taxes, was about $1.75 per gallon. Business graduates with profit "margin", instead of cents per gallon, became the norm. However, a lot of these business school educated airport managers/FBO's were still happy with a cents per gallon that yielded a 25% margin and, subsequently, they sold fuel for about $2.35 per gallon. Many sold it for $1.99, happy to make $.24 per gallon while selling a good volume of fuel.

Radical changes occurred in the mid-2,000 era. Fuel prices went up/down by a dollar or two in less than a year. FBO's made a killing at times, and realized a profit margin of 40~50% for a year or so. Since that time many of these people have not relinquished their margin %, and for a long time their volume has not suffered because uneducated to the fuel business /well-heeled pilots/owners have just "paid the price". Let's hope the high priced FBO's volumes shrink until they feel compelled to lower price to achieve a more balanced volume:profit margin ratio, and more reasonable prices.

Most of the airports in the U.S., during the radical fuel price fluctuations, got comfortable with making $1~$2 per gallon and they don't want to give it up, even now, several years later. The result is very high prices that yield a cents per gallon profit of $2 or more and a margin of 40% to 60%.

What do I think is a fair price for avgas? I still think on a cents per gallon basis, and feel that $.50/gallon is a good and reasonable profit that will yield volume and sufficient gross profit dollars. In today's market that equates to approximately $3.99 selling price. However, all, or most, FBO's don't think as I do, and price their fuel with a higher margin/mark-up, so, I fly to those places with less expensive fuel. Yesterday I flew to Middlesboro, KY, and filled my tanks with fuel at a price of $3.85. I was going to burn some fuel anyway, with a fun flight, and when I put almost 60 gallons of fuel in my plane I saved almost $50 over my home base airport's fuel price. Song: "When will they every learn, when will....".

I wish I lived closer to 3F3, the least expensive airport for fuel today.

What can we do to keep fuel costs at a reasonable level? Don't patronize those with higher prices. Encourage your friends to do the same. Plan trips, long and short ones, with a stop at an airport with more reasonable pricing. It's simple, if there are no sales the price will be lowered (What is the alternative? Quit? Lower price?).

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Max Grogan

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Last edited on 09 Feb 2011, 02:48, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 00:41 
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Aircraft: 1977 A36
Our AvGas in North Texas went up 30 cents last week. Did this happen else where?

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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 02:40 
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Location: Provo, Utah
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
Nice post, Max.

MillionAir has a monopoly on fuel at Provo. Lately their prices have been especially high, about $6.50 per gallon. I have drawn a line at $5 per gallon on my home field and am encouraging all my fellow pilots based here to do the same.

Just south is an unattended self service pump with prices at $4.38, they have been getting my business lately. The saving do add up quickly with these kind of numbers.

I will come back, MillionAir, just give me a reason. :whiteflag:

-MO


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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 06:50 
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Location: Naples, Florida
Aircraft: BE23,N35,C172,C182
I pay 3.89 at our private pump and we charge 10% over cost to cover expenses.

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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 10:37 
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Only a moron would buy avgas at Teterboro (unless you really really needed it to fly 10 miles west to our field). Really it is that they dont want to sell fuel.... Why would they want to bother with 100 gallons of 100LL when they can send their boys around pumping 1000s of gallons of Jet A into the Kerosene burners.


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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 11:15 
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Location: Houston (LVJ)
Aircraft: 1965 Debonair C-33
I used to make the short flight down to Brazoria County Airport (LBX), on the South side of Houston, for cheap fuel. However, they raised their prices a few months ago, so now I fly 20 minutes to Bay City, Texas (BYY) for my fuel. Saves me a lot and makes for an excuse to get out and fly on a nice day. However, the other day, while I was refueling at their self serv pump, I was informed that the airport had just gotten a new airport manager. Evidently he didn't take Econ 101 as he is planing on raising fuel prices rather considerably in the near future. The only reason anyone stops at BYY is for fuel. It's in the middle of no where so no other reason to fly in there. So, if the fuel prices go up the airport will just shrivel up and die. Real smart! With the use of a computer, pilots can now plan their flights in such a manner that expensive fuel stops can be avoided, and likewise use this same tool to patronize those operations that price their fuel fairly. This should put pressure on the various airport managers/FBO's to adjust their prices to become more competitive. Unfortunately, not all have the basic business acumen to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 11:15 
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Excellent post, Max.
I suppose the real reason fuel proces are where they are is, "Because we (still) can."
$5.18 for base customers at KMRY yesterday, $4.65 at KOAR about five miles north.
Robin White


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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 11:34 
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I fly about fifteen minutes from my home field in Colorado and save roughly a buck a gallon. In a Baron, that can be $100 or more per filling. Last time I purchased fuel at my my airport was maybe three years ago??


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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 12:06 
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Interesting topic, and great inside info on the retail business. At TLH, the sole fbo sells fuel for 6.50/gal. I can fly 5 minutes north and get it for 3.98/gal. I usually buy 80-90 gals saving me over $200 per trip. at FXY, the fuel is around 4.40/gal, but the price is not marked and can change on a whim. What are peoples thoughts on not listing the price and having it change all the time?


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 Post subject: Re: Proffit on a gallon of 100 LL
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 14:43 
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 378
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Company: prime concrete const.
Location: virginia beach, virginia
Aircraft: be-33
Username Protected wrote:
I fly about fifteen minutes from my home field in Colorado and save roughly a buck a gallon. In a Baron, that can be $100 or more per filling. Last time I purchased fuel at my my airport was maybe three years ago??

same here, except the last time i bought gas at my airport, was about 7-8 years ago.....


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