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27 May 2018, 19:43 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2018, 21:49 
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Hi all,

This is my first post on Beech Talk, so go easy on me if I'm not in the right place.

As the title implies, I'm a newly-minted private pilot based in north central Florida. Now that I've gotten my license, I'm ready to begin flying as regularly as I can to stay both current and proficient.

My only options for airplane access at this time are the rentals from the Part 61 flight school I attended. While these aircraft are more than capable of being great time-builders, the rental rates are high, the availability is low, and if you want to take an overnight trip there are hourly minimums that make the trip add-up rather quickly.

While I'm not here to discuss the flight school business model, I am curious about other ways to fly regularly. I am not interested in purchasing a plane as I am not sure which type of plane is right for me, and I don't want to get stuck with a dreaded money-pit. I'm also weary about equity-based flying clubs as I do not intend to live in this region for much longer, and I don't want to be faced with trying to sell a partial share of an airplane. I've heard such a task can be a nightmare. I'm looking for more of a non-equity approach.

Is it common practice for owners to lease out their aircraft to pilots on a more short-term basis? I'm not necessarily looking to gain sole ownership as you would expect during a regular lease period. I'm looking for a non-equity situation where I pay a monthly fee to offset some fixed expenses, pay per dry tach hour for maintenance/engine reserves, and agree to fly the plane X hours a month. I know this is a model for several flying clubs, however there are none of similar nature near me. I would be trying to find an owner at my local airport who may be willing to let me use his plane a handful of times a month to make a $100 hamburger run or go visit family for the weekend.

To all the aircraft owners/pilots who may be reading this, is this reasonable or wishful thinking? I'm not asking to fly somebody's prized Bonanza or Baron. I'm mostly just looking for a good, reliable, single-engine piston that I can have easier access too and save money for building time.

Thanks for any and all tips/advice you may have! Just trying to live the dream by being in the sky as much as possible!


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2018, 22:00 
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Joined: 06/28/14
Posts: 642
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Location: Pleasanton , TX (KPEZ)
Aircraft: 1963 Bonanza P35
First off welcome. I think your idea could be reasonable and it could be wishful thinking. It mostly depends on your airport and if you can find the right situation or not. Your scenario could/does happen but the stars have to line up. That may or may not happen for you. Here is what I would say.

1) Hang out at the airport as much as you can and try to get to know other pilots. Espesilly those that have C-150's C-172's, PA-28 cherokees etc.
2) Offer to be a safety pilot, or buy the gas for a Saturday hamburger run etc.
3) Be nice, have a teachable spirit try to learn something new on every flight.
4) After some time has passed you might develop a relationship that would get around to what you are looking for.

If there is a place to post something in the FBO you might make a flyer that says, call me if you need a safety pilot or want to split the gas on your next hamburger run...

Don't try to force any doors open just be patient and build solid relationships. In the meantime make sure you stay current, and comfortable. Even if it is just laps around the pattern etc, do it so when you get the stick in your new buddy's C172 you don't bounce it down the runway... :beechslap:

Also I know you say you don't want to buy, but it might all together be better for you to look for a great deal on a C-150 or solid older C-172. Build 100 hrs, get your instrument ticket, then sell it. If you buy it right you should have no trouble selling the plane in a year or two when you are ready to move on to something else.

Good luck...


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2018, 22:12 
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Joined: 11/23/12
Posts: 1553
Post Likes: +1227
Company: CSRA Document Solutions
Location: Aiken, SC KAIK
Aircraft: Sundowner C23
Ask around your airport to see if there are any plane owners who have lost their medical. There are several at my home field, they welcome the chance to take their airplanes up with someone current that can act as PIC. I fly with several of these guys who otherwise would be grounded....

Welcome to BT! Congratulations on your PPL,

Peace,
Don


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 00:20 
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Joined: 09/05/12
Posts: 3962
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Company: OAG
Location: Portland, OR (KHIO)
Aircraft: 1962 Bonanza P35
It’s worth looking at clubs. Not all are equity buy ins. When I lived in SoCal I joined an all leaseback club. Cheap buy in, cheap monthly dues. Reasonable wet rates. Easy to move in and out of club.

_________________
Paul
I heart flying

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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 01:06 
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Joined: 03/22/16
Posts: 210
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Aircraft: C172, SR20
What do you consider affordable? Normally I’d say a partnership or club, but another great option maybe to buy a C150 that way you can take it with you if you move.


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 09:15 
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Joined: 05/11/10
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (KMQJ)
Aircraft: Cessna 185
Username Protected wrote:
What do you consider affordable? Normally I’d say a partnership or club, but another great option maybe to buy a C150 that way you can take it with you if you move.

Excellent idea. Just be sure to buy as low as possible, as you'll want to minimize the loss when you sell. If you have an interest in tailwheels, a 120/140 can be had cheap and you'll be selling into a more enthusiastic and probably more educated market when the time comes. It sounds like you want a traveling machine, but if your non-complex time building leaves you with 100 hours of tailwheel time, it'll open opportunities for all kinds of aviation fun down the road. And you'll arguably be a better stick and rudder pilot than you would've been after 100 hours of Cherokee rental.


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 09:49 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1959 Travel Air
The cheapest planes are fabric covered and probably not smart to keep outside. Hard to beat a 150 for lowest total cost/hassle


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 17:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
What do you consider affordable? Normally I’d say a partnership or club, but another great option maybe to buy a C150 that way you can take it with you if you move.

Excellent idea. Just be sure to buy as low as possible, as you'll want to minimize the loss when you sell.


This is a great idea that I have actually considered. Only problem is that most C150's on the market today need to have ADS-B Out installed prior to 2020. Living in Florida, the vast majority of places that I would be flying are either in a mode C veil or class Charlie airspace. To not have ADS-B would put me at a significant limitation.

On the flip side of that coin, I don't really want to buy a $18,000 C150 and then have to spend a third of my overall purchase price to update just the transponder. Not sure if there's anyway around the mandate or not, but this is the trend that I am noticing with cheaper trainer aircraft is that they are not in compliance with the 2020 mandate.

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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 18:45 
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Joined: 06/28/14
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Location: Pleasanton , TX (KPEZ)
Aircraft: 1963 Bonanza P35
Use the ADSB as part of your negotiations on the price. Remember just because its listed at 18k does not mean thats the price it will sell at. I think you can find and buy a decent c-150 with a bit of work for 13-15k. I know of one here locally that was listed for 20k, then 19, then 18, then 17, then 16... for 2 years. They finally sold it for 12k and that was the only solid offer they got in 2 years. No it was not fancy, or ADSB equipped... but it was a nice little 150.

Say you do have to put ADSB in it you don't loose 100% of that money. When you go to sell your plane it should carry some of the value forward with the ADSB. There are some ADSB solutions right around the corner in the $1,500-2000 range. IF you spend 2k installing ADSB you can maybe recover 1k at the sale because your c-150 will have something the next one won't. So you are really only spending 1k on ADSB. Find a buddy to partner on this thing with you and it gets even cheaper and maybe even more fun if you can both actually fit in it and get it off the ground for a hamburger run :lol: .

I hate to be the one to break this to you but there is nothing affordable about flying airplanes. There are more affordable ways then others to enjoy flying, but its all relative. Clubs, partnerships etc help make things more affordable but they also create other issues and problems. In your case as in mine there is not a club option available close by. At one point I considered starting a club... that might be an option for you too. Ownership makes sense sometimes, but add in the annual costs, insurance, hanger, etc... and it might actually be cheaper to rent. Renting may be the most affordable in the end...but as you noted before it makes it hard to really use the plane for trips etc. So at the end of the day you have to just figure out what works best for your mission. You will never make money or even break even with flying if you really add everything up (at least this has been my experience). But the other benefits of flying are what you are paying for and they are worth the cost of admission in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 18:52 
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Joined: 02/17/12
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Location: Madison, WI (KMSN)
Aircraft: 1981 Bonanza F33A
I think you have to decide if you want to fly mostly with the owner in the other seat or if you're looking for solo/independence. This decision will influence the options that best fit your goal.


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 19:14 
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
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Username Protected wrote:
Living in Florida, the vast majority of places that I would be flying are either in a mode C veil or class Charlie airspace. To not have ADS-B would put me at a significant limitation.
.


Cheap is cheap for a reason. Choose your poison.


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 19:42 
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Joined: 11/19/15
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Company: Centurion LV
Location: Draper UT KPVU-KSMO
Aircraft: Mirage N345RP
If you can pull it off I say buy

$30k is $200 a month. You would spend way more than that on rental.

Then find a used ADBS transponder and you are good to go. There is a $25k 150 here on Beechtalk that looks great.

I sold an older ADSB out transponder for I think $1200.

Maybe find one other guy and you split it. If you buy it right you should do well, not much more depreciation left.

You are going to spend a lot renting and have no flexibility. Your own plane solves that.

Don’t be scared. The best motivation for making more money is having something to pay for. Haha. The best sales guys are always the broke ones.

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2018, 20:56 
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Joined: 02/25/13
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Location: Jacksonville, FL (KCRG)
Aircraft: 1994 Bonanza F33A
If this https://www.uavionix.com/news/skybeacon ... on-update/ makes it out, it would be a cheap solution for a 150. Probably 2k out the door.


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 03:56 
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Joined: 03/10/11
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Location: Surf City, NC
Aircraft: B55 TC-900
Check out AirlinePilotForums, specifically the Part 91/Low Time forums. Lots of offers to cost share 150s and Cherokees.


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 Post subject: Re: New Private Pilot trying to build time...affordably
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2018, 13:00 
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Joined: 03/22/16
Posts: 210
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Aircraft: C172, SR20
Username Protected wrote:

This is a great idea that I have actually considered. Only problem is that most C150's on the market today need to have ADS-B Out installed prior to 2020. Living in Florida, the vast majority of places that I would be flying are either in a mode C veil or class Charlie airspace. To not have ADS-B would put me at a significant limitation.

On the flip side of that coin, I don't really want to buy a $18,000 C150 and then have to spend a third of my overall purchase price to update just the transponder. Not sure if there's anyway around the mandate or not, but this is the trend that I am noticing with cheaper trainer aircraft is that they are not in compliance with the 2020 mandate.


GDL82 isn't that expensive (~$1800 + install) and should be a pretty quick install. After that just get a Stratux setup for < $200 to sync up with your iPad.

ADS-B Out is great because the ADS-B In that you can recieve is VERY helpful. It prevented a VERY near miss for me within 2 weeks of having it installed. I was on vfr flight following, another aircraft was at the same altitude headed to the same fix and 180 degree opposite heading. I was at the correct VFR cruising altitude - the other aircraft was not. I picked up the potential collision 30 miles out with 300kts+ closure rate. At about 7 / 8 miles (1.5 minutes) I made a slight course change which should we'd no longer be converging. 1.5 minutes later the other aircraft passed off my left wing, same exact altitude and in the same spot I was supposed to be. AFTER the aircraft passed me, Jacksonville Center said they had a target that appeared very close and wanted to know if I had visual on them. IFR targets are the priority, atc isn't perfect, adsb isn't perfect, but adding tools to the toolbox are never a bad thing. I had my wife and 2 kids on board that day. My wife watched the whole thing go down and was unsettling for her. We were on a collision course - ADS-B in / out gave me information that ATC wasn't providing to prevent it.

I know a lot of people thing ADS-B is some horrible expensive thing, but I welcome it. It catches and displays so much traffic that I've never had a "woah, where did that airplane come from" since we installed it. That alone is worth every penny. The weather data is just an added bonus.


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