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22 Oct 2017, 02:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 09:44 
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So I've talked with a couple guys that fly for Delta and seems like with a little seniority you can turn down good trips and as long as someone else picks them up you won't get admonished for not flying full time.

Currently I'm flying C550's and C425's part time for a charter company locally. I absolutely love the job! It's a great family oriented company. Good people and great customers. Plus I'm getting upgraded to captain in the 550 already after only one year. My part time is actually more flying than most of the other guys I talk to in the FBOs. I flew over 450hrs last year.

But always looking to the future I'm just curious if any of the other Legacy or majors have the same kind of ability to fly less than full time lines.

On that subject what do you all think is the best way to Delta if that's my best option for a part time gig?

Currently 36 years old, 2000hrs tt, 1500 ME, 450 multi turbine, 250 PIC multi turbine. Working on my Bachelors while I'm sitting in the FBO's and hotels when I travel.

I was actually a little worried about taking my passion for aviation as a hobby(not really more like lifestyle) and changing to a living would make me not love flying as much. But it hasn't I still love flying and don't see that changing. Can't imagine a better way to get paid than flying someone else's plane!

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 13:30 
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Company: Delta Air Lines, USAFR
Location: Bonney Lake, WA (S50)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35-TC
Username Protected wrote:
So I've talked with a couple guys that fly for Delta and seems like with a little seniority you can turn down good trips and as long as someone else picks them up you won't get admonished for not flying full time.

Currently I'm flying C550's and C425's part time for a charter company locally. I absolutely love the job! It's a great family oriented company. Good people and great customers. Plus I'm getting upgraded to captain in the 550 already after only one year. My part time is actually more flying than most of the other guys I talk to in the FBOs. I flew over 450hrs last year.

But always looking to the future I'm just curious if any of the other Legacy or majors have the same kind of ability to fly less than full time lines.

On that subject what do you all think is the best way to Delta if that's my best option for a part time gig?

Currently 36 years old, 2000hrs tt, 1500 ME, 450 multi turbine, 250 PIC multi turbine. Working on my Bachelors while I'm sitting in the FBO's and hotels when I travel.

I was actually a little worried about taking my passion for aviation as a hobby(not really more like lifestyle) and changing to a living would make me not love flying as much. But it hasn't I still love flying and don't see that changing. Can't imagine a better way to get paid than flying someone else's plane!


Fastest way to Delta (and we are talking years here. . .not weeks or months) based on your published resume:

Go to a regional. Go to one where you can upgrade quickly. Take the upgrade. Finish your degree. Start participating in significant volunteer organizations (take a leadership role).

And enjoy the ride.

_________________
ABS Flight Instructor Academy Graduate


Last edited on 03 Apr 2017, 13:42, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 13:41 
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Hi Matt,

It really doesn't work that way at Delta.

True you can drop trips, but in practice it is far more difficult that it seems it was made out to be. During times of tight staffing, it can almost be impossible and it's very hard to predict.

It would probably take you a good 3-4 years to get the kind of seniority on the lowest paying aircraft in the most junior base to do that on regular, semi-predictable basis, and some airplanes you just can't do it at all because of the lean manning. There are more than a few people who park in spots for Quality of Life (QoL), and they tend not to move much until they can hold a similar spot on a better paying piece of equipment.

For example, say you want to teach at the local community college one night a week. Even someone who was %50 up in the category (category = base + aircraft + seat) would have a very difficult time consistently getting the same day of the week off every week for 16 weeks (the typical length of a college course) without significant drama. Some months it might be easy, others impossible.

Not trying to dissuade you, but it's harder than I think what was let on. The first couple of years you'll be busting your butt full time.

If you're looking to do part time flying outside the company, that is problematic due to FAR 117 duty/flight time rules. Not impossible, but you need company permission, and if you cant make a trip due to FARs, they'll get mighty cranky with you.

Best,
Rich


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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 13:44 
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Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35-TC
Username Protected wrote:
Hi Matt,

It really doesn't work that way at Delta.

True you can drop trips, but in practice it is far more difficult that it seems it was made out to be. During times of tight staffing, it can almost be impossible and it's very hard to predict.

It would probably take you a good 3-4 years to get the kind of seniority on the lowest paying aircraft in the most junior base to do that on regular, semi-predictable basis, and some airplanes you just can't do it at all because of the lean manning. There are more than a few people who park in spots for Quality of Life (QoL), and they tend not to move much until they can hold a similar spot on a better paying piece of equipment.

For example, say you want to teach at the local community college one night a week. Even someone who was %50 up in the category (category = base + aircraft + seat) would have a very difficult time consistently getting the same day of the week off every week for 16 weeks (the typical length of a college course) without significant drama. Some months it might be easy, others impossible.

Not trying to dissuade you, but it's harder than I think what was let on. The first couple of years you'll be busting your butt full time.

If you're looking to do part time flying outside the company, that is problematic due to FAR 117 duty/flight time rules. Not impossible, but you need company permission, and if you cant make a trip due to FARs, they'll get mighty cranky with you.

Best,
Rich


Rich knows what's up. . and that's all gouge AFTER you get hired. Please do not underestimate the commitment one must make to the career path before one gets the attempt at a Legacy.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 14:04 
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Matt--

Brandon and Rich are both spot on. I'm going on my 10th year at Delta and what has been previously described to you is unrealistic.

I've been trying to get a buddy of mine that I flew with at an earlier regional carrier hired at Delta. Problem is, he left the airline track and flew corporate and air ambulance to be closer to family. Despite high time and prior 121 time, he couldn't get a look at any of the legacies. He was also told by Allegiant that he didn't meet their standards to even interview. He just returned to the regional we both flew for over 12 years ago (but now at the bottom of the seniority list) to demonstrate his re-commitment to the airlines. I hope it works out for him and his family. He's probably a touch older than you.

With only few exceptions, it's a long slog to get to a legacy. Once there, consistently structuring your work as anything resembling "part-time" will be questionable, particularly as the retirements accelerate and staffing becomes tight.

I suggest you stay put.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 14:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
Rich knows what's up. . and that's all gouge AFTER you get hired. Please do not underestimate the commitment one must make to the career path before one gets the attempt at a Legacy.



Hey Brandon I'm definitely not underestimating the hill to climb ahead. I'm looking at the next 29years of flying opportunity here.

My original idea was to just keep doing this gig in the Citation for at least another 5 years and maybe more like 10 plus. Then maybe try the airline thing. I totally get that I'll most likely have to commit to 3-5 years at a regional if I want a shot at a legacy. Might even look at any of the smaller majors or cargo operators. Who knows!

Just with the current pilot shortage and the regionals continuing to offer better and better deals. I just wonder if I should consider that jump sooner than 5-10 years from now. Who has a crystal ball to know for sure!

_________________
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3/17 CE550 PIC Type
9/16 C425 135 PIC check
7/16 ATP Check


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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 14:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not trying to dissuade you, but it's harder than I think what was let on. The first couple of years you'll be busting your butt full time.

If you're looking to do part time flying outside the company, that is problematic due to FAR 117 duty/flight time rules. Not impossible, but you need company permission, and if you cant make a trip due to FARs, they'll get mighty cranky with you.

Best,
Rich


Thanks for the insight Rich. Like I said to Brandon I'm aware of the work ahead. And I have no intention of lying for hire outside of a airline job.

Maybe I need to ask the question. What airline can offer the best QOL (i.e. Least days of flying required) and still stay employed?

My current employer to fly full time we get 18 days scheduled off every quarter. That means your basically available to fly 25 days a month. And that never changes with seniority.

I'm pretty sure with a couple years experience most of the airline guys don't work that much unless they are hungry.

_________________
NA58, 7ECA, CE550, C425
3/17 CE550 PIC Type
9/16 C425 135 PIC check
7/16 ATP Check


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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 14:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not trying to dissuade you, but it's harder than I think what was let on. The first couple of years you'll be busting your butt full time.

If you're looking to do part time flying outside the company, that is problematic due to FAR 117 duty/flight time rules. Not impossible, but you need company permission, and if you cant make a trip due to FARs, they'll get mighty cranky with you.

Best,
Rich


Thanks for the insight Rich. Like I said to Brandon I'm aware of the work ahead. And I have no intention of lying for hire outside of a airline job.

Maybe I need to ask the question. What airline can offer the best QOL (i.e. Least days of flying required) and still stay employed?

My current employer to fly full time we get 18 days scheduled off every quarter. That means your basically available to fly 25 days a month. And that never changes with seniority.

I'm pretty sure with a couple years experience most of the airline guys don't work that much unless they are hungry.


Hi Matt,

I'd say the golden age of being able to work part time is pretty much over, and has been for a while. Any major airline you go to is going to require full time commitment.

If pay is not important to you, my guess is it would take at least 3-4 years before you could comfortably coast, and by that I mean you could probably credit 65-70 hours working 11-12 days a month, and you could probably dip below that during the slow months (5-6 months out of the year). But that's if you got hired TODAY.

Waiting 5-6 (let alone 10) years on your current job will probably be a deal-killer. Airlines are about 3-4 years into the hiring wave, and if you wait, you're going to be on the back end of that wave, and that's never a good place to be. You'll be at the back of a VERY large mass of pilots (some of whom are very young), and even if you're young you'll be at the bottom for your entire career, and that means a lot of things are going to be outside of your control.

If you are interested in the majors, you need to move now to make yourself competitive.

My $0.02....

Best,
Rich

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 15:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
Waiting 5-6 (let alone 10) years on your current job will probably be a deal-killer. Airlines are about 3-4 years into the hiring wave, and if you wait, you're going to be on the back end of that wave, and that's never a good place to be. You'll be at the back of a VERY large mass of pilots (some of whom are very young), and even if you're young you'll be at the bottom for your entire career, and that means a lot of things are going to be outside of your control.

If you are interested in the majors, you need to move now to make yourself competitive.

My $0.02....

Best,
Rich


Thanks again Rich! That's exactly what worries me. Makes me want to rethink my plan of waiting and just go for it now.

_________________
NA58, 7ECA, CE550, C425
3/17 CE550 PIC Type
9/16 C425 135 PIC check
7/16 ATP Check


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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 15:49 
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Matt.

As you likely know, seniority is life at an airline. Waiting is never a good idea as the better your seniority is, the better your life is. If Delta is your dream, get to a regional ASAP, get your degree ASAP and get your application into Delta. It's a great place to be!


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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 16:15 
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Sorry, but this dinosaur doesn't "get it."

Folks want to fly heavy metal (expensive training).
Get paid the market hourly wage at a major.
Get excellent:
--medical coverage,
--vacations,
--retirement,
--QOL,
but want it to be a part-time "gig."

It may sound crass, but I found the best contribution I could give my family was financial security. No one ever complained that my job took priority.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 16:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
So I've talked with a couple guys that fly for Delta and seems like with a little seniority you can turn down good trips and as long as someone else picks them up you won't get admonished for not flying full time.

Currently I'm flying C550's and C425's part time for a charter company locally. I absolutely love the job! It's a great family oriented company. Good people and great customers. Plus I'm getting upgraded to captain in the 550 already after only one year. My part time is actually more flying than most of the other guys I talk to in the FBOs. I flew over 450hrs last year.

But always looking to the future I'm just curious if any of the other Legacy or majors have the same kind of ability to fly less than full time lines.

On that subject what do you all think is the best way to Delta if that's my best option for a part time gig?

Currently 36 years old, 2000hrs tt, 1500 ME, 450 multi turbine, 250 PIC multi turbine. Working on my Bachelors while I'm sitting in the FBO's and hotels when I travel.

I was actually a little worried about taking my passion for aviation as a hobby(not really more like lifestyle) and changing to a living would make me not love flying as much. But it hasn't I still love flying and don't see that changing. Can't imagine a better way to get paid than flying someone else's plane!



Dont kid yourself, your job is not a part time job. 450 hours a year is a ton of flying. You might have a bunch of days off but that amount of flying is not part time. I hope you dont get paid as a "part timer".

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"You can't climb the ladder of success with your hands in the pockets"- Schwarzenegger


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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 18:24 
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Username Protected wrote:

Dont kid yourself, your job is not a part time job. 450 hours a year is a ton of flying. You might have a bunch of days off but that amount of flying is not part time. I hope you dont get paid as a "part timer".


I was going to say the same thing! 450/yr in corporate/charter is on the high end of full time work imo.

Don't sell yourself short. I understand getting experience and learning the trade when you're new and all. I did it too.

If I fly over 200 hours a year in a Gulfstream I feel like I'm never home. I easily do 400-500/yr including my G550 work along with my personal flying along with the small aircraft training I do for folks.

Keep it mixed up and new. Don't lose the love for aviation like I did.

-E

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 21:58 
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It may sound crass, but I found the best contribution I could give my family was financial security. No one ever complained that my job took priority.


Huh? I've never heard of anyone on their death bed say man I wish I wouldn't have spent so much time with my family. I should have worked more.

_________________
NA58, 7ECA, CE550, C425
3/17 CE550 PIC Type
9/16 C425 135 PIC check
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 Post subject: Re: What's the best airline to fly part time?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 22:22 
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Matt, you have received some very good advice here, BUT, not from anyone that knows you. I do. You are a can do person and have proven it already. Don't change direction. There is no doubt in my mind you can get this done if it's what you want to do. :bud: :thumbup:

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