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18 Oct 2017, 16:21 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


DShannon Aviation (banner)



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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 03 Sep 2017, 17:16 
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Believe it or not, many regional pilots have left the aviation profession altogether in the last 10 years.

And yes, if they raised the starting pay to $100k at the regional it would definitely help. The majors currently have first year pay in the $90k to $100k and there is no shortage of applicants.

-Neal


I am sure a good number have left when times where lean, but I doubt there was enough to make a difference. And many of those already built a life elsewhere and are not coming back no matter what.

And yes, majors have to problem getting applicants at $90k because they can suck them up from the regionals any time. But if regionals need more pilots, where will they come from?


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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 03 Sep 2017, 17:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
But if regionals need more pilots, where will they come from?


135 and 91 corporate


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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 03 Sep 2017, 18:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
In 1998 I was a flying left seat in a 121 turbo prop, making about 45K/Yr.

I left because of the schedule (plus commuting) and the pay.

The pay and schedules haven't improved enough to change my mind.


If you stuck it out, you'd be a 15 year captain with a major making $200k and living the dream by now ;)


What are the chances I'd be still married to the mother of my kids and be able to fly around the world in my own Aerostar?

I am living the dream.

:peace:
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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 03 Sep 2017, 19:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
But if regionals need more pilots, where will they come from?


135 and 91 corporate


Or the majors in the form of two 737 pilots replacing 6 RJ pilots

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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 22:21 
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I got called for an interview with Delta today, so they are still hiring!

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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 22:46 
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Casey,

That's absolutely great!! Good luck.....
CET

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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 00:20 
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I am glad that the salaries are finally going up.
A normal pilot, flying commercial should be making at least 100k. Not including rating or jet
Because of his or hers "cost of getting that qualification" debt.
This is the unfortunate reality. Kids were passionate and eager to get in that field, so airline played the game and dropped the salaries with the regionals, which is really stupid. Those kids have actually more responsibilities, less equipment than the big iron and are paid so ridiculously low it is a shame.

I really hope that we get back to the level that a commercial pilot can make a decent leaving, like they did 50 years ago.

I tried to get my kids in that field... but the reality is that it is a loosing proposition. ( aside of the passion, and the passion goes away when you fly for the large corps.)

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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 09:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
A normal pilot, flying commercial should be making at least 100k.

Why? What's magical about $100K? Compensation is a function of supply and demand, although the unions and the seniority system make the "market" less efficient.

If you're saying they should make at least that because of the (1) training required, (2) skill required, (3) onerous travel schedule, and (4) risk of losing medical, then I agree. But as long as there are qualified pilots willing to fly for less, there will be too much "supply."

Side note: I hope pay keeps rising, because I have my eyes on doing some Part 91 corporate work when I retire some day.


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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 10:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
But as long as there are qualified pilots willing to fly for less, there will be too much "supply."


That is the issue. A few pilots that went into this field because of passion, and would be happy to fly for anybody, for what ever price, in the hope that at some point down the road they can pick up a private gig, or get left seat with big iron.

But what gets me, is that in the meantime, those folks are flying regional, in the hardest conditions, low minimums, and are risking their lives as well as everyone on board, every day. For minimum wages.

When you look at the cost of flying and everything else, the pilot cost is actually not that much per hour. Raising the pilot salaries would have a very little impact on the ticket price. I am not a fan of unions, but instead of looking out for their ground crew, they many want to also look at the little guy in the cockpit. It is not quick right when the guy that fuels the plane makes more money than the guy that is the cockpit...

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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 10:44 
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But what gets me, is that in the meantime, those folks are flying regional, in the hardest conditions, low minimums, and are risking their lives as well as everyone on board, every day. For minimum wages.


At the risk of thread shift, I think of the Wal-mart critics that decry how low the wages are. To which I ask for a list of the higher paying jobs those people turned down to work at Wal-mart.

The regionals are paying much better than they used to. Not enough to pull me away from a desk, but I remember not too long ago FOs starting at $18K-$20K per YEAR. And they still had takers!


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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 12:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
But as long as there are qualified pilots willing to fly for less, there will be too much "supply."


That is the issue. A few pilots that went into this field because of passion, and would be happy to fly for anybody, for what ever price, in the hope that at some point down the road they can pick up a private gig, or get left seat with big iron.

But what gets me, is that in the meantime, those folks are flying regional, in the hardest conditions, low minimums, and are risking their lives as well as everyone on board, every day. For minimum wages.

When you look at the cost of flying and everything else, the pilot cost is actually not that much per hour. Raising the pilot salaries would have a very little impact on the ticket price. I am not a fan of unions, but instead of looking out for their ground crew, they many want to also look at the little guy in the cockpit. It is not quick right when the guy that fuels the plane makes more money than the guy that is the cockpit...


Regional salaries now average about 60k to start. The guy fueling the plane maybe makes 12/hr. Times are different now compared to the 2000s and before.

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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2017, 10:55 
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These "great" wages are based on a lot of things and not guaranteed. Per diem....great "pay" if you don't eat at work (300-400 hrs/mo).

Here's some of their math.

http://www.airwis.com/content/pilots/Pi ... ay2017.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2017, 08:59 
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:popcorn:


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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2017, 10:58 
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Aircraft: 1997 Baron 58
At Piedmont the math is simpler
$40/hr = 40K (assumes 1000 hrs/yr)
16.2K new hire bonus, 21.2K if have current 121 time.
so $61K w 121 experience, $56K without.

These numbers came about because earlier in the year, pay rate was $38.80. So a 121 experienced new hire was tipping $60K exactly.

No perdiem, benefits, hotels etc. included in that total.

Actual experience is that a captains is tipping $150-$200K because he works for quadruple pay on his days off. an FO can tip well over $100K doing the same. Keeping in mind that that figure is attainable only if one is willing to fly on days off.


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 Post subject: Re: Im going to be an airline pilot - yes, pilot shortage ex
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2017, 11:03 
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Location: Morristown, NJ (MMU)
Aircraft: 1997 Baron 58
Passed my Checkride!! :thumbup:

Sir, Mr. Airline Transport Pilot, Sir to all you plebes
Just :bow: as needed!

Now waiting 5-8 weeks for my turn at flying the airplane, with paying passengers on board, under the watchful eye of an SOE captain. I think that stands for Suicidal but Optimistic Evaluator :D

With my 31 years of flying experience, I went in thinking I would be a 'natural', an ace, the apple of every instructors eye

NOT

This was work. The flying was the easiest part - it is everything else that 'got' us. I went in with no turbine/121/135 experience and was paired with another green GA CFI with 1460 hours. Boy we had to work hard to get all the procedures down.

From 'Did you call for Fuel?' Really? - Why dont they fuel you per the dispatch release?

to 'Did you call in-range to ops so they will assign you a gate' I thought we were scheduled

or "Did you call dispatch via ARINC to let them know that xxx broke?" Oh c'mon - I was too busy reading the 3 page QRH dealing with the problem man!

But keeping our head down and working hard and studying got us through - passed checkrides 1st time - many are needing extra sessions and a mulligan on the checkride!
It was a great learning experience and WELL worth it.


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