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17 Dec 2017, 04:05 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 08:08 
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2500 hour guys have a lot of options at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 08:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
2500 hour guys have a lot of options at the moment.


No question, the industry has certainly changed.

The challenge for a smaller, or really any, 135 operator is ARG/US and Wyvern minimums - without it, it is tough to do charter, with it the minimums are high and require these times. Some brokers require 3000 hours for captain, and ATP for both Captain and FO.

Any way you cut it, 2500-3000 hours is required for a 135 captain these days and that puts you in tough competition with the airlines who have a lot to offer if you want that type of flying.

Brad


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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 08:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
We promote from within to FO from our CFI's, but we are FO heavy right now with nobody ready to move to captain in the near future.


Is there any way to get those guys the hours they need?

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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 08:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
We promote from within to FO from our CFI's, but we are FO heavy right now with nobody ready to move to captain in the near future.


Is there any way to get those guys the hours they need?


Cheaper to raise captain pay than to generate 500 hours out of thin air

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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 09:02 
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Username Protected wrote:
We promote from within to FO from our CFI's, but we are FO heavy right now with nobody ready to move to captain in the near future.


Is there any way to get those guys the hours they need?


They get typed and fly FO (swap seats on legs) as much as we can, the issue is that most are "airline bound" so we type them, get them their ATP and, as soon as they get enough hours to be captain or get an airline offer, they are gone.

We understand the game, but there is limited commitment these days. Most are young (nothing wrong with that) and have never lived with anything but a "pilot shortage". A good thing for them, tough to keep them though unless they are tied to the area or like 135 flying.

The "simple view" is just raise pay, sounds easy but as in any business, there are limits as to what can be done.

Brad

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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 09:07 
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[/quote] Cheaper to raise captain pay than to generate 500 hours out of thin air[/quote]

If raising pay bought any kind of commitment, that is one thing, but most will move on a whim as the grass looks greener.

We will NOT, nor do I believe that the industry should, have training contracts, but a type is expensive and nobody seems to care, they will move on for a "minimal" change in pay or perceived life style.

We have had people call while at school for an initial type rating saying they found something that they like better.

I know that it sounds like I am whining, I am really not, it is just the industry as whole, its the way that it is today.

Brad


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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 10:39 
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That is the battle that 135 and Corporate 91 ops have these days. And you are right, training contracts are not a good answer. Maybe a limited no compete where you can't go work for someone else who required the type the company just paid for for six months. That has happened more than a few times where I work now. There is another company, similar work, but you have to have a type to get hired. More than a couple less then honest people got hired and quit the day they got their checkride done.

That said, typing in a plane is part of the cost of doing business. A local 135 operator asked me about coming on with them to potentially become their Chief Pilot down the road (he is getting up there, wants to retire in the next 2-3 years). They are mostly a King Air operator, and I have a BE300 type, plus 2k+ hours in the King Air series. I've flown every model they have. They also have a small, common jet. They wanted a 2 year training contract for a type that is very common and very cheap to get.

I won't take that job just on principle about the contract.

One of the reasons I have stayed with the expat work vs going back to corporate is too many cases of "oh, a bad quarter, the flight department needs cuts". Also, from what I've seen, at more than a few places, who stays in a cut is very diverse.. One place it's straight senority, the other, "Well Jim is a bad pilot, and only a Captain in the C-152, but his wife Monica is the VP of finances secretary..."

I hate to say it but a lot of the "mercenary" nature of 135/91 pilots, even guys who would like to stay there for a career and have no interest in 121 flying, is due to the moment you are slightly too expensive, or they can replace you with wet ink Commercial who just hit the minimums for insurance, you are GONE.

It's that way with my current job. I know as soon as they have someone who will do what I do for less, and do it close enough to my level, I'm on the street. And the job before that.

It's not a good answer why there's no loyalty, but it seems to be the nature of the beast. Us slightly older guys remember when we were put on the street with no notice.

When I was let go along with the rest of my base from a corporate 91 operator, I found out I was laid off when my company phone was turned off on a Saturday.

I had just turned down a job with another company the week before because I liked where I was and what I was doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 10:51 
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One way to alleviate the pilot shortage would be to raise the mandatory retirement age to 70. :D Sure that would work, with the proviso that the FO must not be older than 65. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 11:04 
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Don't you put that evil on us..

The 60 to 65 and it's resultant effects are still being felt years later.

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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 17:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
Don't you put that evil on us..

The 60 to 65 and it's resultant effects are still being felt years later.


Yeah, I remember a lot of FOs starting to drool over the left seat as captains were approaching age 60, then wham, retirements slowed way down. It was a good thing for a lot of guys who lost most of their pensions in bankruptcy;, a chance to make money for another 5 years.

I figure with the trend towards computers and no pilots, they should phase out by using old pilots. :D They couldn't pay me enough to give up retirement now anyway. :eek:


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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 20:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
That is the battle that 135 and Corporate 91 ops have these days. And you are right, training contracts are not a good answer. Maybe a limited no compete where you can't go work for someone else who required the type the company just paid for for six months. That has happened more than a few times where I work now. There is another company, similar work, but you have to have a type to get hired. More than a couple less then honest people got hired and quit the day they got their checkride done.

That said, typing in a plane is part of the cost of doing business. A local 135 operator asked me about coming on with them to potentially become their Chief Pilot down the road (he is getting up there, wants to retire in the next 2-3 years). They are mostly a King Air operator, and I have a BE300 type, plus 2k+ hours in the King Air series. I've flown every model they have. They also have a small, common jet. They wanted a 2 year training contract for a type that is very common and very cheap to get.

I won't take that job just on principle about the contract.

One of the reasons I have stayed with the expat work vs going back to corporate is too many cases of "oh, a bad quarter, the flight department needs cuts". Also, from what I've seen, at more than a few places, who stays in a cut is very diverse.. One place it's straight senority, the other, "Well Jim is a bad pilot, and only a Captain in the C-152, but his wife Monica is the VP of finances secretary..."

I hate to say it but a lot of the "mercenary" nature of 135/91 pilots, even guys who would like to stay there for a career and have no interest in 121 flying, is due to the moment you are slightly too expensive, or they can replace you with wet ink Commercial who just hit the minimums for insurance, you are GONE.

It's that way with my current job. I know as soon as they have someone who will do what I do for less, and do it close enough to my level, I'm on the street. And the job before that.

It's not a good answer why there's no loyalty, but it seems to be the nature of the beast. Us slightly older guys remember when we were put on the street with no notice.

When I was let go along with the rest of my base from a corporate 91 operator, I found out I was laid off when my company phone was turned off on a Saturday.

I had just turned down a job with another company the week before because I liked where I was and what I was doing.


Casey:

I appreciate your post, it is spot on from what I have seen.

Thanks

Brad


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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 24 May 2017, 23:03 
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How much time do your senior most (or most loyal) CFI/Fo's need?

If it's simply total time for insurance I would pack them into a 150 and say "get going"!

Maybe i'm too simple minded :scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2017, 22:38 
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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 10:19 
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I'll throw my 2 cents in the ring.

Perhaps if you paid the stated salary or rate for one year or even 2 yrs, then if you were still on-board by that date, you would get a bonus that you were setting aside all along. Like 5K or 10K? Its all known up front and everyone knows the terms going in. I know some 401Ks are done this way and it does work. People will stick around for that bonus, its just a few months they say.

Cheers, James


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 Post subject: Re: Pilots Needed - Long Shot
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 10:28 
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One of the arguments made over raising air carrier mandatory pilot retirement age is, if they raise the age, they -FAA will raise the standards. That in itself would disqualify more pilots alone. Its not a good trade for the industry.

Japan has already raised mandatory retirement to 67.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... age-pilots

Cheers, James


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