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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 08:21 
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Username Protected wrote:

I have a similar situation with my hangar. My tail is about 5" from the back wall of the hangar. You might try these. I installed them and they pretty much guarantee I cannot push it too far back.

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H- ... lsrc=aw.ds


Yeah, looks like a good option. Commander wheels are pretty big, so I'm worried with enough momentum could she actually roll over that? 4" is not that tall. I'll look and see if they have any taller ones. Thanks for tip.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 10:05 
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Username Protected wrote:

I have a similar situation with my hangar. My tail is about 5" from the back wall of the hangar. You might try these. I installed them and they pretty much guarantee I cannot push it too far back.

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H- ... lsrc=aw.ds


Yeah, looks like a good option. Commander wheels are pretty big, so I'm worried with enough momentum could she actually roll over that? 4" is not that tall. I'll look and see if they have any taller ones. Thanks for tip.


The width of those is about the same a 2x4 so you could bolt one to the floor with the stop on top and it gives you 51/2". Another option use a 6x6 ripped on the 45 and bolt that to the floor.
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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 10:21 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
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Username Protected wrote:
The general guideline that I’ve heard is that the airplane should not exceed 5% your net worth.

That sounds like a stupid rule an accountant makes up who doesn't understand the value of aviation.

In my case, had I followed such a rule, my net worth would be substantially LESS since I would not have been able to get a suitably useful airplane that would have helped grown my business.

My first airplane I bought was 200% of my net worth. I borrow money from my parents to buy it.

If the plane is such a trivial part of your life as to be 5% of your net worth, you aren't a real pilot.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 10:33 
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My evaluation is of an older King Air because that's what I would want.

So you want to go from the fastest piston twin to the slowest turboprop?

Seems odd you confined your choice to one which will fail your desire for reasonable economics. The King Air is and has always been the most costly twin turboprop per mile, especially an older 90.

Quote:
The long and short of it is that the 90 KA would cost me twice, maybe more, than the Aerostar in operating/maintenance cost.

Can you put numbers on that? Just curious what your analysis says they cost to fly.

Quote:
That would violate my Number One rule of aircraft ownership: Never own an airplane whose cost would be even noticeable to your financial expenditures.

My number one rule is to own the most airplane I can for the money I've got. What is money for if not for flying?

Oddly enough, my net worth increases rapidly after acquiring a new airplane. Part of this is that the new airplane helps bring in more business, part of this is that I feel energized and motivated from having it and that reflects in my business activity.

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But, it is fun to dream, isn't it?

It is more fun to do.

300 knots changes your life.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 10:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
But holy moly is it a tight fit... I'd measured it many times, but today I didn't think she'd fit. Got about 3" of space! It's a hangar rash waiting to happen, though.

You MUST get some lumber or steel angle and bolt down permanent chocks for each main wheel. This is FAR cheaper than flap repair.

You should also paint some guidelines on the hangar floor, or put down some guide rails.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 10:52 
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Mike, you are spot on. But you and I are thinking about airplanes from a "move my business forward" point of view and I believe that JGG is thinking more about personal use.

I've written about how flying GA has moved my business forward in a big way. Just this week I was able to make a short-notice stop and do two more meetings that would have never happened if I was on the airlines. One of those meetings not only moved our agenda forward, it resulted in a referral that could mean a ton to our business.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 11:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
Commander wheels are pretty big, so I'm worried with enough momentum could she actually roll over that? 4" is not that tall.

I would not worry about that. It takes a lot of momentum to go over such a chock and you won't be going that fast.

Something like thise:

https://www.etrailer.com/Wheel-Chocks/F ... 930MI.html

Would bolt down and provide a very solid stop, without putting a mark on the tires.

Look up "wheel chock" online and you can find many other examples if you want something else.

Your main tires are 8.50-10 (same size as MU2), which are ~25 inches OD.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 11:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
...
If the plane is such a trivial part of your life as to be 5% of your net worth, you aren't a real pilot.

Mike C.

That's a bit offensive.

My aircraft are a very significant part of my life but realistically speaking they are toys for me to play with. I don't have more than 5% of my net worth tied up in ANY of my toys.

A personal choice, no relation to whether or not someone is a "real" pilot.

Glenn


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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 13:05 
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Quote:
Yeah, looks like a good option. Commander wheels are pretty big, so I'm worried with enough momentum could she actually roll over that? 4" is not that tall

I had a commander and these will work. They are the same size as what you see in a parking lot. Also hunt around on the web and you an find versions that are only 3' wide. But you have a concrete floor so that means you'll need to go to the local Cresco and rent a 1/2" rotohammer with a concrete bit. Then Home Deport and buy the big tube of concrete epoxy. Getting the spikes sunk and epoxied in will be the hardest part. Be triple sure they are in the right location before you drill!

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 13:10 
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My cordless DeWalt hammer drill did the trick in concrete for me. Just put in lag bolts with lag shields. :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 15:34 
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Mike,

Sometimes, I find posts, and posters, hereon, simply hilarious. :bugeye: :lol:

I'm not a real pilot because I only own what I can afford. Really man, that is priceless. :thumbup: That is a line that would make Rodney Dangerfield jealous. He couldn't get any respect either. :rock:

Please don't stop :rofl: :rofl: , MORE ! MORE ! You're killing me man! :dance:

What other personal failings can you determine from my financial discipline? :bow: :bow:

John Grady

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 17:23 
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Those in support of the 5% rule are high net worth individuals. That's a great rule for you. Suggesting a $10,000,000 net worth is necessary to purchase a $500,000 aircraft eliminates the majority of the pilots out there, in my opinion. Promoting this rule would decimate GA and discourage the entry of new aircraft owners, both business use or personal. There is so much more than a simple net worth formula to justify or rationalize an aircraft. We can all agree it would be cheaper to book commercial airline tickets, but there are countless reasons for why we choose to fly ourselves. Who cares if it makes the most financial sense or not?

I like -
Stan: "I spent most of my money on Airplanes, the rest was just wasted..."


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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 17:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
Funny that someone should bring up a % of net worth as a financial benchmark of aircraft ownership. I had once thought about it in those terms. Again, my standard is that the ownership does not produce a cash flow that I even notice.

However, my thoughts along these lines were that the old standby of home mortgage/insurance/taxes outlays not being more than 30% of one's gross income gives something of a benchmark for other purchases. And turning that to an aircraft purchase/ownership cost, I think the 5% rule is a pretty good standard.

My boys and I were attending Sun & Fun many years ago when they were about 9 and 11 years of age. Referring to some airplane, I don't remember which, one asked me if I could afford it. My answer was "I can buy it but I can't afford it."

That's hitting a lot of us "turbine dreamers" right in the joy-joys. :lol:

John Grady



This is a perfect exercise for the Turbine Step Up thread. Let's help JGG step up by spending only 5% of his net worth. I'm guessing we can get him into something Turbine...?
No need to dream.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 18:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
The other thing to focus on is trying to afford it "emotionally."


I had a choice, fly 50 miles as the crow flies to meeting at an airport in the Aerostar, or drive two hours in a car. Because of the climb over the mountain ridge, I estimated about 20 gallons each way in the Aerostar and about 20 minutes from wheels up to wheels down.

I then compared 40 gallons of gas at $6 to 4 gallons in the car at $3 and I knew I had to sell the Aerostar. I listed it for sale within the month. After 300 hours in a little over 18 months I still could not "emotionally" get used to fuel flows I knew I would eventually make a poor choice if I kept it....

This is what killed the turbine lust for me at the same time.

Tim


Funny story... I fly a fair amount of charity flights. A few months ago, I borrowed a customers C-441 and combined three trips into one. We made an extra stop for fuel at the lowest jet-a price I could find.. Total fuel cost for the trip was $896.98.

Fast forward a couple weeks, and I repeated the same route with two recipients in my Aerostar (SS 700). We have the lowest cost 100LL at home, and I did buy a few gallons to get home that was discounted at Signature, RST. Total cost $866.60...

For the extra $30, I'll take a 441 any day!

Once I get fuel at our home airport, we won't even need to make the extra stop, so the 441 will be cheaper!

Jason

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 20:29 
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This is a perfect exercise for the Turbine Step Up thread. Let's help JGG step up by spending only 5% of his net worth. I'm guessing we can get him into something Turbine...?
No need to dream.[/quote]

Mike,

I'm not a "high net worth" individual: just cheap. :peace:

That being said, on reflection, I only violated the 5% rule once, when I was 28 years old and bought a Model 65 Queen Air that I could not really afford at the time. This includes the 20 years in the construction business when an airplane was an essential business tool. Understand, I am not preaching to anyone, just sharing my own PERSONAL perspective.

John Grady

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