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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 23:10 
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This is a perfect exercise for the Turbine Step Up thread. Let's help JGG step up by spending only 5% of his net worth. I'm guessing we can get him into something Turbine...?
No need to dream.



[quote/]
Mike,

I'm not a "high net worth" individual: just cheap. :peace:

That being said, on reflection, I only violated the 5% rule once, when I was 28 years old and bought a Model 65 Queen Air that I could not really afford at the time. This includes the 20 years in the construction business when an airplane was an essential business tool. Understand, I am not preaching to anyone, just sharing my own PERSONAL perspective.

John Grady[/quote]


That's fair enough. There is nothing wrong with being high net worth and cheap. Those qualities tend to go together more often than not. :cheers:

I'm trying to help. :stir: The Retirement Aircraft thread and the Turbine Step Up have a lot in common for you. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2018, 03:46 
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JGG - every second week you keep telling us how you sold this or that commercial property to "simplify your life", and yet you can't spring for a turbine? Someone is a little too attached to his gains, me thinks ;)

You can't take it with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2018, 08:38 
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Adam,

You inadvertently bring up another point of aircraft ownership: maintenance hassle.

The care and feeding of an aircraft can become a time and hassle burden in itself. I'm not going to recount the issues when I did not have a local shop, but they were many and frustrating as hell.

The shop that has done my maintenance for the last 15 years is only 30 nm away. The maintenance on my airplane is done quickly, competently and for a fair price.

My last theoretical view into owning a KA involved a call to Aubie who manages several for clients. The first words out of his mouth were: "well we will take it to Stevenson-------", and I said bull %#$@. I'm not owning any airplane I have to "take" anywhere. Case closed.

In picking my "retirement airplane", ease of maintenance was #1. The Aerostar is not a maintenance issue because "my shop" can do it all. I use it very little, but owning it is less hassle than selling it.

The Aerostar is ready, willing and able. We went to D.C. this past weekend and, you guessed it: commercial. Going again in May: already bought our 1st class tickets.

I do enjoy shooting approaches in the A* on the weekends.

Can I afford a turbine: yes. Am I going to? No.

Just dreaming and running off at the mouth.

John Grady

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2018, 08:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
In picking my "retirement airplane", ease of maintenance was #1.

The easiest maintenance is that which you don't have to do.

On that score, turbines win hands down over a piston twin. Turbines simply don't require much unscheduled maintenance, far less than piston aircraft.

Quote:
The Aerostar is ready, willing and able. We went to D.C. this past weekend and, you guessed it: commercial. Going again in May: already bought our 1st class tickets.

What is the point of having an Aerostar if you won't use it for travel? Sounds like you have found the worst point on the curve, a complex piston twin which you don't actually use for travel. You should either move up the food chain to sometime you will use for travel, or down to something simpler for short range use.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 04:06 
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Adam, was thinking you might gain an inch behind your starboard flap by moving the electric conduit, or maybe just raising the outlet. Might be a critical inch one day...


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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 10:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
Adam, was thinking you might gain an inch behind your starboard flap by moving the electric conduit, or maybe just raising the outlet. Might be a critical inch one day...


Yes, it's a good idea, I will move it!

Dropped her off at avionics shop yesterday for the last fixes. Be nice to be able to close that chapter and just concentrate on what's left mechanically.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2018, 13:23 
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4. IFD540 cut out on transmission immediately again, so the previous idea that the generator that went offline and the low voltage did it, wasn't actually the problem. It's something with the unit. I take her to avionics shop on Mon.


Just got word from avionics shop, turns out the IFD540 cutting out was a bad antenna.... :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2018, 13:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
4. IFD540 cut out on transmission immediately again, so the previous idea that the generator that went offline and the low voltage did it, wasn't actually the problem. It's something with the unit. I take her to avionics shop on Mon.


Just got word from avionics shop, turns out the IFD540 cutting out was a bad antenna.... :shrug:



:pray: fingers crossed for you pal!

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2018, 19:29 
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Adam, I just read this thread from start to finish, having not spent much (any) time in "Brand X Talk" before. I love reading these ‘restoration’ threads (even when they don’t mean to start out as long restoration threads) and watching planes transform from near-scrap to great flying machines. Whether it was worth it or not to you, only you can decide, but you’ve restored life to that airframe and that’s commendable! Many people find great pleasure in doing it, and that’s what life’s all about. Hopefully the last of the squawks are resolved soon and you can get into ‘maintenance mode’ with the plane and put it to good use.
:cheers:

Username Protected wrote:
I personally think net worth is a very poor metric to use; income is much better. And again, where you are in life will play a major role in what is acceptable. Airplanes consume cash, you need to be able to comfortably afford the cash expenditure; which can be a purchase/upgrade loan, maintenance....
I have to agree with Timothy here. Stage of life and (most importantly) free cash flow are key factors. You can have such a lavish lifestyle that even with a high net worth, you can’t afford to operate a plane that’s 5% of your net worth. The reverse is also true. My experience outside Beechtalk is mostly pilot owners of modest means with a passion for aviation.

Moreover, purchase price and operating expenses aren’t well correlated (in fact often the opposite). No question my net worth would be slightly higher if I hadn't bought the Baron and instead stuck with the more expensive (but much cheaper to operate) Mooney.

Operating expenses are not a rounding error on the average owner’s income statement. I respect the success of the BT members that are so flush that they can operate a high-performance twin without even noticing the annual costs, but let’s not suggest that’s a requirement to participate in GA. Being able to afford it and sneezing at it are very different things. :shrug:

Lastly, not everything should be measured on a balance sheet. :tape: Those individual operators that actually profit from their planes are, in my experience, few and far between. I have no illusions. It is a luxury item that affords my family and me great experiences. I work with people that spend what I spend on the plane for the year on a single vacation; just a question of priorities. YMMV.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2018, 22:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
Adam, I just read this thread from start to finish, having not spent much (any) time in "Brand X Talk" before. I love reading these ‘restoration’ threads (even when they don’t mean to start out as long restoration threads) and watching planes transform from near-scrap to great flying machines. Whether it was worth it or not to you, only you can decide, but you’ve restored life to that airframe and that’s commendable! Many people find great pleasure in doing it, and that’s what life’s all about. Hopefully the last of the squawks are resolved soon and you can get into ‘maintenance mode’ with the plane and put it to good use.
:cheers:


Thank you Christopher! Certainly didn't start out that way, but that's what it ended up being. I can tell she's flying excellently at the moment and besides some of the challenges left to fix (cabin leaks, bad de-icing boots and some A/P troubles), they're somehow smaller in my mind now that she's out of the clutches of my last shop. So nice not to have to call and get disappointed each week, or have to write a check. Right now she's costing me nothing for a change! :thumbup:

Funnily enough, the psychology of ownership changes when you don't have access to your plane. Out of sight and out of mind. My mind started to wander to the next thing (it always does eventually, but normally not this fast), to the point where I was kind of "over this one" before I'd actually flown her much. The plan was for awhile seriously to get her all fixed up and then sell her and put that money towards a more modern turbine. But funny how access to your plane, seeing how nice she flies and what good speeds she does, mixed with a little reality dose of a downturning personal finances/economy refocuses the mind! Now I'm more committed than ever to finalize this aircraft and keep her. She does everything I need a plane to do at this moment (and now we're very close to the finishing line). Don't know what I was thinking.. :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2018, 12:34 
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Little update from the trenches of old turboprop ownership for those that are interested.

Flew plane from CA to Kansas City earlier in the summer without A/P. A little tiring, but after she's fully trimmed up, not too bad. On the way back dropped her off at Autopilot Central in Tulsa, OK. Came back a month or so later and lo and behold, the A/P works again! Trip back to SoCal was much more relaxing (except for the thunderstorms and a slight scare over NM). Here are the beats:

Approaching Albuquerque and skirting TS, I see the low fuel light come on. I'd seen it before during steep approaches, but never in level flight. I tell the controller I might need priority. He offers me to go to the closer Albuquerque International and I accept. Taxi to Atlantic and fill her up. Nope, had over 60gals left in tanks, enough for over an hour. So the low fuel light is just set very conservatively. Not a bad thing, just got my attention. Now I know.

Next day, refuel at Lake Havasu. It's scorching hot. Last stop before home. Engine temps are still high after refueling, so I motor the right engine with igniter off to cool it down before flipping the switch. Land back home at KEMT and now I see fuel dripping down the right leg (but not from the normal EPA-cans at bottom, but behind, more like from firewall). WTF? De-cowl the day after, run engines, can't replicate. No leaks. Decide she's safe to fly to a mechanic at next airport. He can not find any fuel leaks either. Only thing I can think of is that when I motored engine at Lake Havasu without igniter on, fuel got pumped in and must have pooled in turbine housing or something and run down in the crack between the exhaust and engine... Bizarre.

Got a quote from the mechanic to reseal and repair the whole floor, which is big pressurization leak spot on mine. So decided to do that. She's now been sealed up and they're doing pressurization leak tests next week. Then I found it prudent to order a new phase inspection (annual) even though she's legal. The old mechanic not being reliable, it's good to just make sure everything is kosher beneath all the inspection panels.

So, a long and arduous process it has been, but we're getting closer. This and last month I could have used the plane at least 10 times. Kills me she's not been available for my transportation needs.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2018, 23:49 
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I spent a lot of money fixing fuel leaks not he 425 when I first got it. Even after a lot of effort, it still had a small one that only happened when the tanks were full. But after a few months, it went away and now doesn't leak even after sitting with full tanks for days. So the moral of the story is I would chase a leak that only happens once unless its a pisser. If it's just a dribble it might go away.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 00:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
I spent a lot of money fixing fuel leaks not he 425 when I first got it. Even after a lot of effort, it still had a small one that only happened when the tanks were full. But after a few months, it went away and now doesn't leak even after sitting with full tanks for days. So the moral of the story is I would chase a leak that only happens once unless its a pisser. If it's just a dribble it might go away.


I'm thinking you might be on to something. Because my outboard tanks leak for sure, so I only fly on the inboards. It's possible when it was that hot in Lake Havasu that the inboards after refueling pushed some out into the outboards (they're all connected) and that then leaked and ran down the leg. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 08:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm thinking you might be on to something. Because my outboard tanks leak for sure, so I only fly on the inboards. It's possible when it was that hot in Lake Havasu that the inboards after refueling pushed some out into the outboards (they're all connected) and that then leaked and ran down the leg. :thumbup:


How much does not having the outboard tanks limit the kind of flights you make?

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Turbine step up?
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018, 09:14 
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Adam, do you have the Bendix FGS-70 AP in your Commander?


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