banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 12:40 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 12:43 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12161
Post Likes: +3535
Aircraft: C55
I loved my little Helicycle, but the Mosquito XE-285 has me intrigued. They are using an Arctic Cat 800HO engine that is designed to make 160HP at 8500 RPM. In the helicopter they re-map the computer, change a few small items, and run it at 6000RPM making about 50-70 HP depending on what phase of flight you are in.

Having ridden arctic snowmobiles for years I have faith in their engines and the Mosquito owners seem to swear by their little machines (especially auto rotation capabilities) but I have never flown one.

_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 13:20 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14525
Post Likes: +22857
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
just to get this straight in my head - you think the stock market is too risky but you fly ultralight helicopters ?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 13:23 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
Post Likes: +4780
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
I've been drooling over the turbine version. About $60K factory built and ready to fly.

On the danger scale, what are the risks of these things Todd having owned something similar. I know you had a near miss one time with Helicycle.

I fly ultralights too a bit so I understand some of these risks but know nothing about rotary flight.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 13:35 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/12/07
Posts: 2948
Post Likes: +1462
Company: Stonehouse Supply,Inc.
Location: Wellington-Palm Beach, Florida
Aircraft: Van's RV-14A
Every time I hear the word rotary, this is what I think of safety wise.

Attachment:
pig roasting on a spit.gif


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
"Don't Fight the Fed" ~ Martin Zweig


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 13:52 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/10/12
Posts: 6819
Post Likes: +7927
Company: Minister of Pith
Location: Florida
Aircraft: Piper PA28/140
Username Protected wrote:
I loved my little Helicycle, but the Mosquito XE-285 has me intrigued. They are using an Arctic Cat 800HO engine that is designed to make 160HP at 8500 RPM. In the helicopter they re-map the computer, change a few small items, and run it at 6000RPM making about 50-70 HP depending on what phase of flight you are in.

Having ridden arctic snowmobiles for years I have faith in their engines and the Mosquito owners seem to swear by their little machines (especially auto rotation capabilities) but I have never flown one.


Do the snowmobiles run continuously at 6000 RPM?

_________________
"No comment until the time limit is up."


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 13:56 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12161
Post Likes: +3535
Aircraft: C55
Username Protected wrote:
just to get this straight in my head - you think the stock market is too risky but you fly ultralight helicopters ?


The 285 is not ultralight and it has a proven air frame and rotor system that has never failed. My concern is the engine. 2-strokes generally are not good power plant options due to the high RPM / Low MP in a descent which causes too little of oil to lubricate the engine. The way I understand the new engine is that the fuel and oil injection is computer controlled and compensates for the RPM problem, whereas a carb cannot since it is only a function of airflow to draw in oil.

As for risk - I am in control of the machine. If you are in the markets the machine is in control of you.

My Helicycle was actually a wonderful flying machine and the engine was bullet proof. I was not satisfied; however, that the rotor system was stable as 10 of us had a horrible shake develop.

The Mosquito was designed from the ground up as a simple and robust helicopter with the designer being a very capable engineer. He is still alive today flying the machine after 20+ years. Some of the owners have even demonstrated hover autos from nearly 20 ft. This is something that cannot be done by almost every other helicopter out there without damage.

Anyway, it intrigues me. I like challenges and things that are not common.

_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 14:06 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12161
Post Likes: +3535
Aircraft: C55
Username Protected wrote:
I loved my little Helicycle, but the Mosquito XE-285 has me intrigued. They are using an Arctic Cat 800HO engine that is designed to make 160HP at 8500 RPM. In the helicopter they re-map the computer, change a few small items, and run it at 6000RPM making about 50-70 HP depending on what phase of flight you are in.

Having ridden arctic snowmobiles for years I have faith in their engines and the Mosquito owners seem to swear by their little machines (especially auto rotation capabilities) but I have never flown one.


Do the snowmobiles run continuously at 6000 RPM?


The high performance snowmobiles generally do not engage the clutch (centrifugal) until 4000-4500 RPM and cruise at 30-50 MPH RPM is around 6000 depending on gearing. On my sled I ran it pretty hard averaging 70 MPH or so and 7500 RPM. Of course, you are on and off the throttle continuously in the woods. There were stretches that I would hold the throttle down for 5-10 miles turning 8500 RPM and 110 MPH (160 HP) and then when entering a wooded area with the throttle all the way down or all the way off. I never found sledding any fun anywhere in the middle :D

2-strokes generally make a lot of power with little weight and that is their advantage in a sled. From what I understand it is not a good idea to have an "unloaded" engine turning high RPM for any significant duration whether two stroke or 4 stroke. Maybe George B could opine here.

Like I said, I beat my snowmobile to death and never had a problem which included very rough terrain. In the helicopter I just don't know.

BTW, the designer of the helicopter claims that the 800cc engine is superior to the turbine in every way. Don't know what to think of that.

Pretty good demonstration here of it's power, ability to maintain RPM, and left pedal authority:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/spQJTpyiZiw[/youtube]
_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Last edited on 22 Sep 2016, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 14:34 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/14/13
Posts: 6058
Post Likes: +4628
consistently see the same personalities attracted to these types of machines

go for it!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 14:36 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14525
Post Likes: +22857
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
Username Protected wrote:
2-strokes generally make a lot of power with little weight and that is their advantage in a sled. From what I understand it is not a good idea to have an "unloaded" engine turning high RPM for any significant duration whether two stroke or 4 stroke. Maybe George B could opine here.

Worse for 2-strokes, it's more a matter of them being difficult to govern at light loads so an overspeed becomes a possibility. The concern applies to all sizes, for example this 2-stroke, which is usually prevented by its computer from getting close to its screaming top speed of 900RPM if the power demand is light


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 14:42 
Online


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/11/09
Posts: 5229
Post Likes: +4130
Company: Looking
Location: Tulsa, Ok
Aircraft: Baron/Bonanza
Neat machine, but sounds like my leaf blower in that video!

_________________
I don't have a problem with anger, I have a problem with idiots.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 15:04 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12161
Post Likes: +3535
Aircraft: C55
Helicycle was fun:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/wvgVjkKlatA[/youtube]

Head camera POV on a different flight:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/jl6OaJ7rAEM[/youtube]

_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 15:20 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14128
Post Likes: +9073
Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
Looks fun! why not another Helicycle?

_________________
http://calipilot.com
atp/cfii


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 15:58 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12161
Post Likes: +3535
Aircraft: C55
Username Protected wrote:
Looks fun! why not another Helicycle?


It scared me enough that I did not feel comfortable in it again. When a machine shakes so bad that you can't keep your mouth closed and your vision is compromised from the shake you tend to shy away.

I entered an auto rotation and not long after the entry the machine went into a horrible shake that literally began tearing the machine apart in the air. The main rotor blades went into a whirl that was flexing them up and down 2-3 ft in each rotation.

I did not know that another 8-9 owners had this same problem in the past. I also did not know that raising the collective stopped the shake. Had I been informed of this I would have been more comfortable, but the "secret" concerned me.

_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 15:59 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/08/09
Posts: 6994
Post Likes: +4280
Location: Stuart, FL (KSUA)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35
Years ago I was on an interesting UAV rotorcraft project that used 2-stroke engines. We seized an engine many times with the engine at low power (low fuel flow) and up at nominal flight rpm (100% rotor speed). Running the rotor at 100% on the ground with no pitch was very problematic.

I wonder how they address this?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone own a Mosquito helicopter?
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2016, 16:35 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/19/08
Posts: 12161
Post Likes: +3535
Aircraft: C55
Username Protected wrote:
Years ago I was on an interesting UAV rotorcraft project that used 2-stroke engines. We seized an engine many times with the engine at low power (low fuel flow) and up at nominal flight rpm (100% rotor speed). Running the rotor at 100% on the ground with no pitch was very problematic.

I wonder how they address this?


Yes, this is the problem with carbed engines and helicopters.

What happens is that you are still running on the "slow" jet when not pulling any real power, but are turning high RPM. This condition is too lean and causes either rod bearing failure due to lack of oil or piston burn and seizure due to the excessive lean condition. If you increase the slow jet size it solves the problem, but creates the problem of being too rich at lower RPM which fouls the plugs.

With EFI and oil injection and the ability to custom program the ECU you can fine tune the programming to pump more oil and fuel at high RPM / Low power settings which solves the problem of being too lean and not enough oil and also tune it to cut back the oil and fuel and low RPM to avoid fouling.

With a carb you this simply is not possible. Furthermore, with a carb you would have to rejet the slow jet and needle jet depending on altitude and temperature. Fuel injection is the answer.

_________________
The kid gets it all. Just plant us in the damn garden, next to the stupid lion.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.