23 Apr 2024, 13:56 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II  Posted: 17 Nov 2018, 19:08 |
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Joined: 03/09/13
Posts: 911
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Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: CE525,PA31
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Username Protected wrote: I think we agree it is not normal and should turn it over to the engineers.  Mark or the plane?  Andrew
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 17 Nov 2018, 19:10 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5233
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: I think we agree it is not normal and should turn it over to the engineers. Mark or the plane? Andrew
Some things are fixable and some you just have to accept the way they are. 
_________________
Allen
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 18 Nov 2018, 15:03 |
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Joined: 05/17/15
Posts: 135
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Username Protected wrote:
Shouldn’t do it that much. You have corrosion on a ground to the airframe.
Thanks. I will sqwak it.
Call Team CJ at Cessna. I seem to remember our CJ3 doing that too. I could be misremembering though.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:15 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
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Scenario:
Landing on 6,500’ runway. Ref calculated as 102.
At 500’ you are ref +10. Speed bleeds to ref across the fence. Around 200’ feet you notice AOA is indicating “slow” while ASI is on speed.
Air is smooth, pitch feels normal. What do you do?
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:16 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 13587
Post Likes: +10972
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Scenario:
Landing on 6,500’ runway. Ref calculated as 102.
At 500’ you are ref +10. Speed bleeds to ref across the fence. Around 200’ feet you notice AOA is indicating “slow” while ASI is on speed.
Air is smooth, pitch feels normal. What do you do? Land and a call a mentor?
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:18 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
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Power up to fly AOA or maintain Vref per ASI?
(No cheating Mark)
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:29 |
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Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 4697
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Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
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As Marisa Tomei said in "My Cousin Vinny"... That's a bogus question....ya honah… Quote: At 500’ you are ref +10. Speed bleeds to ref across the fence. Around 200’ feet you notice AOA is indicating “slow” while ASI is on speed.
If you are on speed crossing the fence, you are at 50 feet... Land. But if the Pawntiac had pawsitraction… (ahem) I always went with the donut at the visual point....( but then I wouldn't necessarily go below ref either..) especially with a 6500' runway. Heck I'm retired now anyway.... (but I'm sure this is a gotcha question... So, what's the answer?)
_________________
Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
Last edited on 24 Nov 2018, 23:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:31 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 13587
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Power up to fly AOA or maintain Vref per ASI?
(No cheating Mark) You have to cross check copilot ASI. Otherwise you have a he said, she said.
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:33 |
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Joined: 03/04/13
Posts: 2592
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Location: Little Rock, Ar
Aircraft: A36 C560 C551 C550S
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When was the last time the AOA was checked and or calibrated?
Robert
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:38 |
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Username Protected wrote: When was the last time the AOA was checked and or calibrated?
Robert Last 1-4 which is coming due soon I think.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:43 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
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Not a trick question.
I flew it on and all was normal. I was with a highly experienced Citation guy in the right seat and he expected us to drop in due to being “so slow”. Landing was normal.
After some confusion, we realized he was only referencing AOA and I was referencing ASI. I was on speed per ASI and 8kts slow per AOA (approximation).
We have another leg tonight so we’ll fly the AOA down and compare the two ASIs as well.
Based on “feel”, I think we’ll end up fast. He made a good point which was that I should be comparing the two and reacting accordingly.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Nov 2018, 23:46 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5233
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Scenario:
Landing on 6,500’ runway. Ref calculated as 102.
At 500’ you are ref +10. Speed bleeds to ref across the fence. Around 200’ feet you notice AOA is indicating “slow” while ASI is on speed.
Air is smooth, pitch feels normal. What do you do? Means you are probably heavier then your calculated landing weight unless you are in the wrong flap setting. At 200’ i would give it a bit of power and land. Vref is between 1.2 & 1.3 Vso. You are not going to fall out of the sky being Vref-5. You just won’t have much energy in the flare so be careful you don’t land hard.
_________________
Allen
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