banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 10:11 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 4188 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209 ... 280  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 17:06 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5233
Post Likes: +3026
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
Username Protected wrote:

For the 550 I have flown:

3 positions

Flaps up
Flaps Approach
Landing Flaps


525 CJs have an additional flap setting of GROUND.

_________________
Allen


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 17:09 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/09/13
Posts: 910
Post Likes: +449
Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: CE525,PA31
Username Protected wrote:

For the 550 I have flown:

3 positions

Flaps up
Flaps Approach
Landing Flaps


525 CJs have an additional flap setting of GROUND.


Which also deploys speed brakes.

Andrew

Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 17:10 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5233
Post Likes: +3026
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
Username Protected wrote:

Define what you mean by reference point.

This is how you move the plane on approach from a 3 degree GP pointed to land at the 1000’ mark to a 3 degree GP pointed to land at the numbers while maintaining Vref. This is what Mark described he did by pointing the nose at the numbers, that increased airspeed, lost Vref, and then floated in the flare about 100’ for every knot above Vref, which negated the effort of trying to land short.

Speed brakes is a tool to use during non-standard approaches which some airports require.


Hi Allen. By "reference point" I would mean ones intended point of crossing the threshold at a certain altitude at a certain speed. Vref. Thanks for pointing out the FSI diagram was OEI at the DH.


If you cross the threshold at 50’ to land at the 1000 foot marks on a 3 degree GP then you need to cross the threshold lower then that to land on the numbers on a 3 degree GP.
_________________
Allen


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 17:28 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 17507
Post Likes: +21008
Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
My training was what Allen and Mark said. Fully configured at FAF. We'd normally cross IAF around 200 knots and set power around 62% which lead to continuously slowing to be at Vref 50 feet over threashold.

_________________
Dave Siciliano, ATP


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 18:07 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/05/11
Posts: 5303
Post Likes: +2423
Aircraft: BE-55
Username Protected wrote:

This is how you move the plane on approach from a 3 degree GP pointed to land at the 1000’ mark to a 3 degree GP pointed to land at the numbers while maintaining Vref. This is what Mark described he did by pointing the nose at the numbers, that increased airspeed, lost Vref, and then floated in the flare about 100’ for every knot above Vref, which negated the effort of trying to land short.

Speed brakes is a tool to use during non-standard approaches which some airports require.


Hi Allen. By "reference point" I would mean ones intended point of crossing the threshold at a certain altitude at a certain speed. Vref. Thanks for pointing out the FSI diagram was OEI at the DH.[/quote]



If you cross the threshold at 50’ to land at the 1000 foot marks on a 3 degree GP then you need to cross the threshold lower then that to land on the numbers on a 3 degree GP.[/quote]

Understood. But I think you were describing a maneuver with a GS greater than 3% where I assume you keep Vref by use of the speed brakes. Makes sense whereas if you push the nose over to hit the numbers your speed goes up and you float. So using the rule of "1 in 60" instead of being about 1350' 5 miles out you're at say 1800' for a 4 degree GS. At five miles to this would equate to roughly 720'/min ROD @ 2nm/min or 120kts.

_________________
“ Embrace the Suck”


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 18:32 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5233
Post Likes: +3026
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
Username Protected wrote:

Understood. But I think you were describing a maneuver with a GS greater than 3% where I assume you keep Vref by use of the speed brakes. Makes sense whereas if you push the nose over to hit the numbers your speed goes up and you float. So using the rule of "1 in 60" instead of being about 1350' 5 miles out you're at say 1800' for a 4 degree GS. At five miles to this would equate to roughly 720'/min ROD @ 2nm/min or 120kts.


If I want a 4degree GP from 1800’ I can set the power to have a stabilized GP at Vref without the speed brakes.

On Citations, speed brakes need to be retracted ny 50’. Landing with speed brakes is prohibited.

What I described was how you do a duck under when on a 3 degree GP and want to move your landing point closer while staying at Vref and 3 degree GP. As I said it is an advanced maneuver for non-standard airports.

_________________
Allen


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 19:39 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/31/17
Posts: 935
Post Likes: +540
Location: KADS
Aircraft: C560, C340
Username Protected wrote:
Question about configuring landing flaps once you had the runway environment in sight and continuing to 100 Ft. It seems to me like that is not the time to be making configuration changes. On an approach to minimums, we are always fully configured for landing at the FAF so no changes have to take place after that. This is an Embraer Legacy though. Interested in your thoughts on this and why you do it that way. Maybe that's how all Citations do it? Just curious.


Excellent catch. We should have been landing flaps at 1000 agl. I was cheating thinking was going around. Didn’t want all that drag if we were going around anyway. My bad. AC91-79A



I noticed it and thought I would not want to be making any configuration changes that late. You have realized the mistake. The problem with adding full flaps that late is that it will balloon you up if you are not carful. I fly an Ultra and the nice thing about having full flaps is the it allows you to have enough power to keep the engines and wing root hot.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 11:20 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 13578
Post Likes: +10961
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Ok boyz. Today’s mission. KORD to KSAW noon CST. Single Pilot. Anybody in Chicago! Ha.

N90Z. Flying as Dotcom 2091. Trackable as N90Z


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 12:12 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 06/08/12
Posts: 12587
Post Likes: +5181
Company: Mayo Clinic
Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
So, you need to climb through some stuff....
Should be a no baiter with your experience, kknowledge and proficiency.
When do you punch the AP on those things?
My nephew, who flies for Emirates, tells me they have strict company standard ops about when they engage and disengage ap.

_________________
BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 12:53 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3431
Post Likes: +2381
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
As long as the weather is above minimums for your arrival at KSAW, you’re golden. Have a good flight.

_________________
Previous A36TN owner


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 13:04 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 13578
Post Likes: +10961
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
As long as the weather is above minimums for your arrival at KSAW, you’re golden. Have a good flight.


Ya. Would hate to recreate that approach SP. no snow this time though.

_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 13:07 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/11/11
Posts: 2252
Post Likes: +2213
Location: Queretaro / Woodlands
Aircraft: C525 BE40 D1K Waco
Username Protected wrote:
Ok boyz. Today’s mission. KORD to KSAW noon CST. Single Pilot. Anybody in Chicago! Ha.

N90Z. Flying as Dotcom 2091. Trackable as N90Z

One of these days, I'm going to take you up on these offers. It would be a blast.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 13:12 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
Post Likes: +6969
I’ll be curious to learn how the braking action is at SAW. The ramp was an ice rink when we departed.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 13:22 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I’ll be curious to learn how the braking action is at SAW. The ramp was an ice rink when we departed.

!SAW 01/137 SAW RWY 19 FICON 25 PRCT ICE SANDED 100FT WID OBSERVED AT
1801211014. 1801211014-1801221014
!SAW 01/136 SAW RWY 01 FICON 25 PRCT ICE SANDED 100FT WID OBSERVED AT
1801211013. 1801211013-1801221013
!SAW 01/134 SAW TWY ALL FICON ICE SCARIFIED 75FT WID AND SANDED 75FT
WID OBSERVED AT 1801210011. 1801210011-1801220011
!SAW 01/135 SAW APRON ALL FICON ICE SANDED OBSERVED AT 1801210012.
1801210012-1801220012
!SAW 10/043 SAW APRON TERMINAL RAMP W 200FT WIP SN REMOVAL
1710271830-1804302359
!SAW 12/001 SAW APRON TERMINAL RAMP BTN TWY C AND TWY D CLSD
1712011439-1805012200

Where does one get braking action reports?

(I don't need them... yet)

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 13:50 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 13578
Post Likes: +10961
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Love this


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 4188 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209 ... 280  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.