19 Apr 2024, 07:56 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 00:29 |
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Joined: 09/05/12 Posts: 6486 Post Likes: +4540 Location: Portland, OR (KHIO)
Aircraft: 1962 Bonanza P35
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Username Protected wrote: I post this against my better judgment. This is what happens when you see the lead in lights at 200 when ceiling is reported 100@ 1/2. Figured the miss but saw lead ins at 200
12000 foot home Drome. Nailed it.
Text book. [youtube]https://youtu.be/fFh1PnllZYg[/youtube] What was more thrilling, that or the TSA pat down?
_________________ Paul I heart flying
ABS Lifetime Member EAA Lifetime Member
Last edited on 13 Jul 2017, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 06:49 |
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Joined: 05/11/10 Posts: 9313 Post Likes: +12024 Company: ? Most always. I like people. Location: KFIN Flagler, FL
Aircraft: 1991 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: This is what happens when you see the lead in lights at 200 when ceiling is reported 100@ 1/2. Figured the miss but saw lead ins at 200
12000 foot home Drome. Nailed it.
Text book. Mark, you're so humble!
_________________ Bible In Poems BibleInPoems.com BNice
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 12:59 |
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Joined: 12/16/07 Posts: 17605 Post Likes: +21336 Company: Real Estate development Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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Is that an Amazon Echo next to the windscreen Just tell it what approach and it dials it up? Echo: missed approach!
_________________ Dave Siciliano, ATP
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 13:07 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 13586 Post Likes: +10972 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Is that an Amazon Echo next to the windscreen Just tell it what approach and it dials it up? Echo: missed approach! Alexa - say minimums?
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 14:13 |
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Joined: 05/17/15 Posts: 135 Post Likes: +70
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Username Protected wrote: This is what happens when you see the lead in lights at 200 when ceiling is reported 100@ 1/2. Figured the miss but saw lead ins at 200
12000 foot home Drome. Nailed it.
Text book. [youtube]https://youtu.be/fFh1PnllZYg[/youtube] What's the hesitation about posting? All legal and well done. Good to go with just approach lights in sight at DA. Continued down to 100', then you saw the runway and landed. Nicely done.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 15:10 |
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Joined: 06/08/12 Posts: 12587 Post Likes: +5181 Company: Mayo Clinic Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
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Username Protected wrote: This is what happens when you see the lead in lights at 200 when ceiling is reported 100@ 1/2. Figured the miss but saw lead ins at 200
12000 foot home Drome. Nailed it.
Text book. [youtube]https://youtu.be/fFh1PnllZYg[/youtube] 12,000 ft runways definitely add a huge dose of comfort.
_________________ BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 15:28 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 13586 Post Likes: +10972 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: 12,000 ft runways definitely add a huge dose of comfort.
Yes. I actually was flying Vref +20 and Approach flaps on short final. Was 99% sure I was going to go around and wanted margin and less drag. I knew with 12,000 ft I would have no problem putting flaps down and getting stopped if I was able to land.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 17:32 |
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Joined: 05/17/15 Posts: 135 Post Likes: +70
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Username Protected wrote: 12,000 ft runways definitely add a huge dose of comfort.
Yes. I actually was flying Vref +20 and Approach flaps on short final. Was 99% sure I was going to go around and wanted margin and less drag. I knew with 12,000 ft I would have no problem putting flaps down and getting stopped if I was able to land.
I think you would have been able to execute a pretty nice GA from Vref +5 and land flaps. If you are ready for it from every approach then it becomes a non-event if you have to do it at the last minute. I've started briefing the GA on every approach and it's amazing how much confidence it builds.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 17:42 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 13586 Post Likes: +10972 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: I think you would have been able to execute a pretty nice GA from Vref +5 and land flaps. If you are ready for it from every approach then it becomes a non-event if you have to do it at the last minute. I've started briefing the GA on every approach and it's amazing how much confidence it builds.
Yes. No doubt. The beauty of Part 25 airplane is that they do what they are supposed to when flown properly. Adding a little margin given the length of the runway? Good idea or bad? Be interested in the groups thoughts. I understand it isn't necessary but is it helpful?
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 17:45 |
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Joined: 05/17/15 Posts: 135 Post Likes: +70
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Username Protected wrote: I think you would have been able to execute a pretty nice GA from Vref +5 and land flaps. If you are ready for it from every approach then it becomes a non-event if you have to do it at the last minute. I've started briefing the GA on every approach and it's amazing how much confidence it builds.
Yes. No doubt. The beauty of Part 25 airplane is that they do what they are supposed to when flown properly. Adding a little margin given the length of the runway? Good idea or bad? Be interested in the groups thoughts. I understand it isn't necessary but is it helpful?
I'd fly every approach the same, whether at KMDW or KSAW.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Jul 2017, 18:29 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5233 Post Likes: +3026 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Adding a little margin given the length of the runway? Good idea or bad? Be interested in the groups thoughts. I understand it isn't necessary but is it helpful? I know you knew you had 12,000' and you have reversers but that is how light jets run off the end of runways. Vref +10 is as good as Vref+20 and safer. Every kt over Vref costs you 100' in runway needed. No windshear and no gusting winds I would get it to within Vref+10 by 500' with flaps to land. Now you were flying flaps in Approach. In the 2+ you add 8 kts to Vref for that configuration and multiply landing distance by 1.25. So you were only 12 kts over Vref at your configuration. More into the slot I described above. So Vref+10 with flaps to Land or Vref+18 (whatever the 550 additive is) for flaps at Approach. With proper speeds for your configuration I don't think it hurts, but I don't think it is helpful either. You should able to GA as easily at Vref+5 flaps Land as Vref+20 flaps Approach.
_________________ Allen
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