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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 00:29 
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I post this against my better judgment. This is what happens when you see the lead in lights at 200 when ceiling is reported 100@ 1/2. Figured the miss but saw lead ins at 200

12000 foot home Drome. Nailed it.

Text book. [youtube]https://youtu.be/fFh1PnllZYg[/youtube]



What was more thrilling, that or the TSA pat down?

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Last edited on 13 Jul 2017, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 06:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is what happens when you see the lead in lights at 200 when ceiling is reported 100@ 1/2. Figured the miss but saw lead ins at 200

12000 foot home Drome. Nailed it.

Text book.


Mark, you're so humble! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 06:54 
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Great video! I love watching instrument minimums videos. It's always thrilling to see the runway break out right where it's supposed to be.

...second only to actually flying them.

Of course it doesn’t compare to a total eclipse or a chicken egg caught by twigs up in a tree.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 12:59 
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Is that an Amazon Echo next to the windscreen :lol:
Just tell it what approach and it dials it up?
Echo: missed approach!

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 13:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
Is that an Amazon Echo next to the windscreen :lol:
Just tell it what approach and it dials it up?
Echo: missed approach!



Alexa - say minimums?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 14:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is what happens when you see the lead in lights at 200 when ceiling is reported 100@ 1/2. Figured the miss but saw lead ins at 200

12000 foot home Drome. Nailed it.

Text book. [youtube]https://youtu.be/fFh1PnllZYg[/youtube]


What's the hesitation about posting? All legal and well done. Good to go with just approach lights in sight at DA. Continued down to 100', then you saw the runway and landed. Nicely done.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 15:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is what happens when you see the lead in lights at 200 when ceiling is reported 100@ 1/2. Figured the miss but saw lead ins at 200

12000 foot home Drome. Nailed it.

Text book. [youtube]https://youtu.be/fFh1PnllZYg[/youtube]


12,000 ft runways definitely add a huge dose of comfort.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 15:28 
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Username Protected wrote:

12,000 ft runways definitely add a huge dose of comfort.


Yes. I actually was flying Vref +20 and Approach flaps on short final. Was 99% sure I was going to go around and wanted margin and less drag. I knew with 12,000 ft I would have no problem putting flaps down and getting stopped if I was able to land.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 17:32 
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12,000 ft runways definitely add a huge dose of comfort.


Yes. I actually was flying Vref +20 and Approach flaps on short final. Was 99% sure I was going to go around and wanted margin and less drag. I knew with 12,000 ft I would have no problem putting flaps down and getting stopped if I was able to land.


I think you would have been able to execute a pretty nice GA from Vref +5 and land flaps. If you are ready for it from every approach then it becomes a non-event if you have to do it at the last minute. I've started briefing the GA on every approach and it's amazing how much confidence it builds.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 17:42 
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I think you would have been able to execute a pretty nice GA from Vref +5 and land flaps. If you are ready for it from every approach then it becomes a non-event if you have to do it at the last minute. I've started briefing the GA on every approach and it's amazing how much confidence it builds.


Yes. No doubt. The beauty of Part 25 airplane is that they do what they are supposed to when flown properly.

Adding a little margin given the length of the runway? Good idea or bad? Be interested in the groups thoughts. I understand it isn't necessary but is it helpful?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 17:45 
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I think you would have been able to execute a pretty nice GA from Vref +5 and land flaps. If you are ready for it from every approach then it becomes a non-event if you have to do it at the last minute. I've started briefing the GA on every approach and it's amazing how much confidence it builds.


Yes. No doubt. The beauty of Part 25 airplane is that they do what they are supposed to when flown properly.

Adding a little margin given the length of the runway? Good idea or bad? Be interested in the groups thoughts. I understand it isn't necessary but is it helpful?


I'd fly every approach the same, whether at KMDW or KSAW.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 18:01 
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Since you asked...

IMNSHO, for a Cat I or below certainly, you should be in landing configuration by 1k' AFL. If you want to land on a long RW with less than full flaps, fine. Plan the approach and landing that way, but below 200' is not the place to be changing your configuration.

A Cat I GA in a jet from normal approach configuration/speed is a non-event. In short, I agree with Chris, above.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 18:29 
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Adding a little margin given the length of the runway? Good idea or bad? Be interested in the groups thoughts. I understand it isn't necessary but is it helpful?


I know you knew you had 12,000' and you have reversers but that is how light jets run off the end of runways. Vref +10 is as good as Vref+20 and safer. Every kt over Vref costs you 100' in runway needed.

No windshear and no gusting winds I would get it to within Vref+10 by 500' with flaps to land.

Now you were flying flaps in Approach. In the 2+ you add 8 kts to Vref for that configuration and multiply landing distance by 1.25. So you were only 12 kts over Vref at your configuration. More into the slot I described above.

So Vref+10 with flaps to Land or Vref+18 (whatever the 550 additive is) for flaps at Approach.

With proper speeds for your configuration I don't think it hurts, but I don't think it is helpful either. You should able to GA as easily at Vref+5 flaps Land as Vref+20 flaps Approach.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 19:04 
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Noted guys. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 19:27 
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Nicely done Mark!


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