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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 10:23 
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Joined: 02/10/12
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Saw a guy at a FBO wanting to use his program card demanding the 4.01 price listed. They were able to take .39 of of that if he just used a credit card. Goes right into FBO account. Don’t have to wait for slow paying Fuel card company to pay.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 11:09 
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Joined: 12/16/07
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Yes Mark, one has to shop. I've found several places where their retail rate is lower than a fuel card, especially World Fuel. I've called and World just says they can't beat some of them. I've found CAA consistently better. At a few places, if one dickers enough and frequents it, an on-field rate can be better. At Wisconsin Aviation in Madison, a new gal once quoted me the airline rate. That will get your attention as far as what's cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 11:33 
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Dave,

Hahaha the "airline" rate. That lost her the job quick. Airlines make their deal with the Airport operating entity when they sign on to offer service. The fbo only gets a flowage/delivery fee for the gallons. Only helps them in their overall volume with their fuel supplier. The airport also usually charges a fee to the airline based on gallons too. This info should be available publicly from the minutes. I've seen a nickel, .05, go to the airport before. Not a get rich situation but it all adds up when you talk good gallons.

I remember Shell Oil had a small pipeline spur up to Ohare, back in the 70's at least, that supplied a very small portion of ORD's volume. This pipe carried 8,000 barrels an hour I think to the tank farm. That's 416,000 gallons/hour. I think a 737 back then might have burned 8000 gallons on a trip to Vegas from ORD. :bugeye:

FBO makes their real money off GA and GA private jets/TP's.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 12:22 
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Yea Chuck: new gal and when I asked further, someone else stepped in and told me not to pay attention to the man behind the curtain! But, it was illuminating to hear what the airline rate was.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 17:07 
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KMDW to KPUB. FL400. Straight V. 400kts true. Never saw more than 280knots.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 17:40 
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KMDW to KPUB. FL400. Straight V. 400kts true. Never saw more than 280knots.


Haven't seen one of those in a while. Globalstar 2100?


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 19:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
KMDW to KPUB. FL400. Straight V. 400kts true. Never saw more than 280knots.

I assume you're not landing with 150lbs of fuel so what does the yellow 150 represent?


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 19:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
KMDW to KPUB. FL400. Straight V. 400kts true. Never saw more than 280knots.


Haven't seen one of those in a while. Globalstar 2100?


GNS-XL
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2018, 19:08 
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KMDW to KPUB. FL400. Straight V. 400kts true. Never saw more than 280knots.

I assume you're not landing with 150lbs of fuel so what does the yellow 150 represent?

The plane “manufactured fuel Enroute. Landed with 1300
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 09:27 
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The plane “manufactured fuel Enroute. Landed with 1300


I have heard of this before with old FMS. New ones take climb and descent into account? In other words, the new ones calculate the whole trip like we would manually, versus just a snapshot in time?

That GNS looks confusing to the uninitiated...not like a Garmin where you can just figure it out. I suppose after some training, like anything, it all makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 21:15 
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Regarding fuel card prices, I believe if CAA price is not the best one on the field the FBO can get kicked out.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018, 10:24 
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No,
Not the cheaper on the field but at the same FBO.


Username Protected wrote:
Regarding fuel card prices, I believe if CAA price is not the best one on the field the FBO can get kicked out.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2018, 16:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
The plane “manufactured fuel Enroute. Landed with 1300


I have heard of this before with old FMS. New ones take climb and descent into account? In other words, the new ones calculate the whole trip like we would manually, versus just a snapshot in time?

That GNS looks confusing to the uninitiated...not like a Garmin where you can just figure it out. I suppose after some training, like anything, it all makes sense.

All of the ones I ever flew with would "make fuel" along the way, assuming your flight planning was accurate. The FMS doesn't know what the winds aloft are and so it uses your current speed and fuel burn (both unstable) to calculate ETA and Fuel at Destination. As you fly, you burn off fuel and accelerate. If you are flying from a strong headwind into a lighter one you'll go even faster. Both will affect your fuel on the deck. The trick is to do your flight planning right on the ground and use those numbers as primary. You can also wet-finger based on ETE vs hourly fuel burn numbers that you know from experience.

That old Global box brings back some memories. That one's the fancy one with a color screen! I bet with a half hour of play time I might even remember how to program it :D (They really weren't hard, just not all that intuitive).
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2018, 22:37 
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FL 370
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No Passengers


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Thanks MH!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2018, 02:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
FL 370
Single Pilot
No Passengers


:liar: but nice try. :rofl:
:bud:

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