28 Mar 2024, 06:28 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 12 Mar 2018, 20:50 |
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Joined: 01/18/13 Posts: 13831 Post Likes: +7161 Company: Retired Location: San Clemente, CA
Aircraft: Link Trainer
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Username Protected wrote: I think I see what is going on with RNAV departure design. But the average pilot looking at the charts would have no clue as to why that altitude is there.
I passed it by my resident expert. I'm not sure he has the fleck on this one: Quote: LNAV engagement altitude was established by AC 90-100 at 1000’ or 500’. Remember the Type A and Type B procedures. The 1000’ supported the MD80 which could not engage LNAV until 1000’. When the software was updated, which allowed 500’ engagement.
That my recollection at least
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 12 Mar 2018, 21:17 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5233 Post Likes: +3026 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Quote: LNAV engagement altitude was established by AC 90-100 at 1000’ or 500’. Remember the Type A and Type B procedures. The 1000’ supported the MD80 which could not engage LNAV until 1000’. When the software was updated, which allowed 500’ engagement.
That my recollection at least So AC90-100 https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-100A_CHG_2.pdf specifies the requirements for using RNAV routes, departure procedures and STARS. DP must be flown as RNAV 1 routes. Pilots must use a lateral deviation indicator (or equivalent navigation map display), flight director and/or autopilot in lateral navigation mode on RNAV 1 routes. And 10.c.(1) says: 1) RNAV DP Engagement Altitudes. For DPs, the pilot must be able to engage RNAV equipment to follow flight guidance for lateral RNAV no later than 500 feet above airport elevation.Again, the wording is no later than 500 feet and not a minimum of 500'. It all makes sense to 135/121 pilots trained on RNAV 1 & RNAV 2 requirements and procedures. Little training for PT91 pilots to really understand all the new RNAV requirements.
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 12 Mar 2018, 22:25 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5233 Post Likes: +3026 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Ok....this is clearly post graduate work! Ya’ll talking some real differential equation stuff. Nah, we didn't even discuss this which is in the AC: Attachment: 2018-03-12_2231.png The key is if you have paperwork that says your aircraft is approved for RNAV 1. If it is RNAV 1 approved it will fly the RNAV DP procedure and you follow it with your lateral deviation indicator (or equivalent navigation map display), flight director and/or autopilot in lateral navigation mode. The AC says: Aircraft with a statement of compliance to this AC in their Airplane Flight Manual (AFM), Pilot’s Operating Handbook (POH), or the operating manual for their avionics meet the performance and functional requirements of this AC.
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 01:08 |
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Joined: 01/01/10 Posts: 3431 Post Likes: +2381 Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
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Username Protected wrote: Ok....this is clearly post graduate work! Ya’ll talking some real differential equation stuff. The feds can take the flying out of the flight, can’t they?
_________________ Previous A36TN owner
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 04:22 |
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Joined: 03/09/13 Posts: 910 Post Likes: +449 Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: CE525,PA31
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Username Protected wrote: On another government related note...to all the grumpy TSA agents...#shouldofstayedinschool. Remember those kids that were picked on at school, you never really knew them or what they did but they were always getting teased...well I’m pretty certain they got jobs with the TSA and now it’s pay back
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 07:37 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 6037 Post Likes: +3998 Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
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Andrew, Not to be non PC, or discriminate here, but I found the norm with bullies is they are last in their class and mostly underemployed/unemployed now. Success is the best revenge, served hot or cold.
_________________ Chuck KEVV
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 09:36 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 13578 Post Likes: +10961 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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I swear this happened. I went through those machines where you place your hands above your head and it scans you. The worman says “come on out”but it was intended for some one else. I moved. Bad flying iceman. They have to touch every area on my body that the machine has place a square. Testies among them. I learn when a guy with rubber gloves says “would you like to go into a private room” it ain’t good. He learned I like to “mess with a brother” and that I have a high tolerance for public humiliation. (But you all know that right)I thought it was fun watching him pat me down. On his knees he places his hands on my testies. I swear i said this “how much you like your job?” Of course he was the one that wanted the private room.. hehe. Iceman just doesn’t care what other people think.
Why couldn’t they just scan me again rather than pull on my ripcord? Rules they say. Ok. Let’s do it in public...cause you gunna hate it more than me. Again with the passive aggressiveness.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
Last edited on 13 Mar 2018, 09:45, edited 2 times in total.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 10:11 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23612 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I swear this happened. The worse it gets, the better GA looks. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 11:58 |
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Joined: 01/18/13 Posts: 13831 Post Likes: +7161 Company: Retired Location: San Clemente, CA
Aircraft: Link Trainer
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Username Protected wrote: I swear this happened. The worse it gets, the better GA looks. Mike C. Especially a well-equipped biz jet.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 20:46 |
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Joined: 03/01/14 Posts: 2125 Post Likes: +1604 Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
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Username Protected wrote: Especially a well-equipped biz jet. As long as the pilots don’t have to walk up too many steps to go to work.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 20:58 |
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Joined: 01/18/13 Posts: 13831 Post Likes: +7161 Company: Retired Location: San Clemente, CA
Aircraft: Link Trainer
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Username Protected wrote: Ok....this is clearly post graduate work! Ya’ll talking some real differential equation stuff. The feds can take the flying out of the flight, can’t they? Be fortunate enough to purchase a G550, which is fully RNP AR capable out of the box.
But, the chastity belt isn't unlocked unless the crew completes RNP AR training at a Part 141 school. The operator also has to provide a compliant program for database validation and flyability of every RNP AR approach for which authorization is sought.
Then, a LOA from the nearby fed.
Once approved, the crew is limited to basic RNP AR approaches until 100 approaches are signed off.
Guess what? There are wealthy owners of capable airlines such as the G550 that refuse to go through the process. Others find value in the capability, so they jump through the many hoops.
RNP AR IAPs and the qualification process are of, for, and by the airlines.
Keep this thought in mind when thinking of the airlines (once again) owning the FAA air traffic control system.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 21:00 |
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Joined: 01/18/13 Posts: 13831 Post Likes: +7161 Company: Retired Location: San Clemente, CA
Aircraft: Link Trainer
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Username Protected wrote: Especially a well-equipped biz jet. As long as the pilots don’t have to walk up too many steps to go to work. Or they are qualified and competent.
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