Thanks Eric, I'll consider that too.

Just had the P baron in your shop for a little work. Ryan did good work!

+1, I've heard they STRONGLY lean toward military pilots.
gary

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd ... &dealerid=

Here is a nice one for sale at my home field.

>> The 177 and 177A had a thin wing that has poor lift and high drag at low speed.

Actually, Byron, ALL Cardinals have the same airfoil. The only difference is that the '68 and '69 have a sharper profile to the leading edge. Beginning with the 177B (and all the RGs) that leading edge was made blunter for more docile stall characteristics... but the wing airfoil is the same.

What you may be thinking of is that the '68's with 150 HP could easily get behind the power curve, and with a high angle of attack, be fairly draggy. But there are good fixes for the '68's, either the 180 horse conversions discussed earlier, or high compression pistons, delivering 160 HP, plus PowerFlow exhaust. And, importantly, an aftermarket fixed cowl flap really improves climb performance.

>> the 180HP Cardinals from the factory had that (constant speed prop)

Starting with the 1970 model year, that is true. The 1969 model year had 180 HP and a fixed pitch prop. There's an STC to convert the '69, and the STC's to add 180 HP to the '68's come both ways, FP or CS.

Paul

>> Hold on to the door in the wind--- They are large and cause big time damage if left to fly in the breeze!

>> Very limited market for Cardinals so hardly any mods out there for them.

Actually, the aftermarket mod community is fairly active... for the door issue mentioned above, there's a Door Steward gas shock that reinforces the smallish factory door stop, for instance.

Lycoming saw fit to STC the IO390 for the Cardinal RG. Both the FG and RG have PowerFlow exhaust systems, and the Tornado Alley (GAMI) turbocharger system for the RG has just been upgraded with the addition of an intercooler.

Quite a number of speed mods, as well, from both LoPresti, and more significantly, from Maple Leaf Aviation.

Paul

Are there any deice options for Cardinals? I did a bit of poking around and couldn't find anything available. I know that you can get TKS on the C182's but can't find anything on the C177s...

Love the Cardinal and you cannot go wrong! Sundance has one where I am training at KPAO and I plan to get my complex endorsement this summer after I pass my checkride for PPL. Nearly as fast as an older 182 and great design.

>> I was seriously in love with the idea of the Cardinal for about a year... until I sat in a few. My head was in the headliner. Not "close"... in it. I am "only" 5'-11", but I am long-of-torso and short-of-leg.

That is very curious. I'm 6'1" with no problem, and Keith Peterson, the webmaster at Cardinal Flyers Online, is 6'4" and doesn't have that problem.

There are a couple of variables. Sometimes, the headliner droops. It's easy to fix. In fact, if you are very long in the torso, there's LOTS of room above the headliner, and a custom headliner could create all kinds of headroom.

The other issue is that there are three different seat configurations... and some folks add foam to the lower seats (no cranks) to get them higher. That can certainly cause a problem.

But we have Cardinal Flyers who are 6'6" and they fit... so something wasn't right during your preview experience.

Paul

This. 182s hold their value because of their utility. 177s have a following, and nice examples have outlier prices.

Saw this one at SnF last year. It was really nice. New interior, new avionics, new paint, new glass, the whole smash....

And the paint was really, really cool....

Best,
Rich

Not many people at 17 really know what they want to do when they grow up. What you are doing is a very economically efficient way to get her through her ratings. Don't count on her being able to pay her way through college as a CFI , but she could definitely make some extra spending money that way particularly if she goes to a place with a good flying club or local training outfit that will hire her (i recommend the flying club option).

The good news about doing it now rather than in college, is if she did her ratings in college as part of a university program, she might be tempted into a relatively useful aviation degree (aviation management, aviation science) where it really only prepares her for a career as a pilot - but counts her training for college credit. (Not to mention, if you think $30k is expensive, look up the tuition at ERAU or Purdue's flight training programs). If she already has all her ratings or does her ratings outside of college, she can focus on a more generally useful university education -- engineering, business, premed, etc. where if she decides piloting isn't the career for her or the industry gets even worse, she'll have other great employment options.

Also, she really should consider military options if she wants a career as a pilot, and a ROTC scholarship significant reduces the costs of college .

As for the spin thing, I wouldn't pick an airplane based on that. You can always rent a 152 or something for a few hrs and do spin training. Seems like a Cessna RG meets your mission pretty well otherwise.

And you have one lucky daughter

>> The only real bug-a-boo on Cardinals is the wing spar. If it has been inspected and found to be corrosion free (and then treated with corrosion protection), there are almost no other real worries.

This is much ado about nothing in my opinion. Yes, every airplane should be inspected, that's why we have annual inspections, and it's worth pulling the interior out every decade or so to make there's no mischief going on.

But we haven't seen a spate of spar carrythrough failures...

Paul

John,

I've owned my 1976 182 for 9 years. If I can be of help, let me know

Kevin

I had a few questions about 182's:

Are there any model/years to watch out for?
Is the Cessna A/P OK (I like to teach A/P coordination as a part of IR)
Whats up with the 1500 TBO on the earlier O470's - does it really need to be replaced that early

The Cardinal market seems a little strange. 177B's (Fixed gear/Constant speed) are way, way high priced for what you end up with. The impression is that the pricing coupled with the small numbers available put them in a "niche" catagory to use a popular cliche'. I'm not sure you get what you pay for. I'd want to talk to owners with comparative experience owning other types including a Cardinal.

The time I have in a '73 RG was awesome. But a buyer can get a good '60s Bonanza for less and go faster using about 3-5gph more fuel.

As for the FG version? $60-80k+ for a non basket case? They make even Archers seem like a great purchase deal!

I hate to tell you Spins YES. It's right in the POH.