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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2020, 10:53 
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Loops And Rolls On Sunny Afternoons :bud:


Ahh, thank you! I call that OMA.... to follow your lead. Old Man Aerobatics. I expect the Waco is much like the Stearman and is a good aerobat.

The F33C is pretty good at that as well;)


I've not flown the newer Wacos, but I've had a 450 Stearman and a ZPF-7. The UPF/ZPF-7 is much better balanced and a nicer flying airplane, as compared to the Stearman. IMO

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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2020, 19:56 
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Joined: 04/22/10
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Location: Port Vila and sometimes Brisbane
Aircraft: A36 Bonanza
Not sure if I posted these before - me playing in a mates Tiger Moth a few years ago. At the time this Tiger Moth was bog standard - tail skid and no brakes - hence the care taxiing out and not strapping in until you were ready to takeoff. In case you needed to cut the switches, jump out and grab a something to stop the aircraft ending up in a ditch.

Ronny has since done a masterful Job of fitting brakes (just to taxi with - no use landing) and a tailwheel without ruining the character of the aircraft.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/J_12Vlo6guc[/youtube]


[youtube]https://youtu.be/QL76gckXVi8[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2020, 21:23 
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Looks fun Charles...

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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2020, 22:09 
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Location: Port Vila and sometimes Brisbane
Aircraft: A36 Bonanza
The old Tiger is very much an aircraft of its era - 1920-30s British.

It doesn't do anything particularly well - bags of adverse yaw, not enough power, etc - but somehow the whole package is just wonderful fun.

In fact it does do one thing extraordinarily well - particularly the standard version with a tail skid and no brakes - it teaches you SA on the ground and airmanship. On windy days you better know what you're doing with the controls or you won't get very far. On bitumen you sometimes needed to walk the aircraft to the grass if there was any significant wind - that is you stood beside the rear cockpit holding the sill with your left hand and worked the throttle with your right hand while controlling direction with body weight as you walked along beside the aircraft. On the grass the skid helped but you really need to remember the old 'climb into the wind/dive away from the wind' saw to stop the wind making life more difficult than it needed to be :peace:

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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2020, 21:48 
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Joined: 04/12/11
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Location: Pinehurst, NC
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Cool video. That does look like loads of fun! Nice flying.

Your description of walking the airplane to the grass... wow.

I’ve not flown acro in the Waco. But here are approved maneuvers and limits:

(Click on the pic and it opens in the correct orientation. :scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2020, 07:06 
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Joined: 04/22/10
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Location: Port Vila and sometimes Brisbane
Aircraft: A36 Bonanza
The other good fun to be had in open cockpit biplanes is WW1 style dogfights - This is young Will Dyer trying, unsuccessfully, to get a guns solution on me.

If you watched the Ice Pilots series Will was the young Ozzie that turned up in Yellowknife and worked for a year or so for Joe at Buffalo Airways. He is still close to Joe and Mickey McBrian.

Before he went to Canada he flew for a joy flight company on their Tiger Moth as well as night mail runs on AC 500s so he turned up in Yellowknife with best part of 3000hrs - about 2800hrs more than the typical baggage chucker at Buffalo.

When he couldn't take the Canadian cold any longer I got him a job with us as a Captain on the Twin Otter. A couple of years later we had 'too many' Otter captains so he requested and received LWOP to take up a position of Captain on Turbine DC3s for Borek (recommended by the captains he flew with at Buffalo) flying all over the world and most particularly Antartica on skis. In between southern summer seasons in Antartica on the Turbine DC3 he came back to Vanuatu and flew casually on the Twin Otter - amazing how briefly we were short of experienced Twin Otter Captains. for the last 6 months or so he graces my right hand seat on the Boeing 737 regularly - fingers crossed that will continue. :hide:

Always fun to fly with although he never got close to shooting me down - old age and cunning always beats youthful exuberance :lol: :dancing:

Somewhere I have a vid of one of our dogfights - then we had a go at formation loops - I'll have to hunt it out. :cheers:

Attachment:
Dogfight.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2020, 22:35 
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Joined: 10/19/08
Posts: 1487
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Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
I am glad to be able to join this thread again. After I sold my Pitts S2A, I looked for the next biplane for some three years. S2B's, S2C's, -12's, Skybolts, Waco UPF-7's, Stearmans, Bückers, etc. were the elusive prey that never hit the spot. From OSH to Florida; the East to the West Coasts, and even Canada, the hunt came up with an empty larder.
Then open day my neighbor from across the runway asked if I would be interested in looking at his Great Lakes. He has a new UPF-7 being built for him by the folks at Rare Aircraft, and was looking for a good home for his GL. I hadn't given the GL a great deal of thought, as I've always held the Pitts as the gold standard of biplanes.. Well, I went over and looked... and the more I looked, the more that airplane grew on me. Simple and elegant, it checked all the boxes for me: Open cockpit, classic good looks, and aerobatics at the "age appropriate" level; I no longer like to go into maneuvers where I think: "ohh, this is going to hurt". (Like the old Honda motorcycle ads of the '60's... you meet the nicest people at the Sportsman level).
So, one thing led to another, and after the customary inspections, negotiations, and good ole' hoss tradin', I made her mine.
The GL now shares the hangar floor with its new friends: the beloved 180, and another open-cockpit legend, the Morgan 3-Wheeler. It's a bit of a tight fit, but it will do while I do the expansion of the hangar for more space.
The stuff of real aviators has to do with walking beside the biplane, holding to the coaming with the left hand, and nudging the throttle with the right, as you guide it with your body to the field for takeoff. I am glad I don't have to do that with the GL!.
And, thanks to my lack of ability to correct the orientation of the pictures, I present them to the forum in perfect formation, nearly at the top of a hammerhead, and right before kicking left rudder.

Best,

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2020, 13:36 
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Joined: 02/22/09
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Good for you Tom. And you're right, they do look elegant - great lines.
Dave

Username Protected wrote:
I am glad to be able to join this thread again. After I sold my Pitts S2A, I looked for the next biplane for some three years. S2B's, S2C's, -12's, Skybolts, Waco UPF-7's, Stearmans, Bückers, etc. were the elusive prey that never hit the spot. From OSH to Florida; the East to the West Coasts, and even Canada, the hunt came up with an empty larder.
Then open day my neighbor from across the runway asked if I would be interested in looking at his Great Lakes. He has a new UPF-7 being built for him by the folks at Rare Aircraft, and was looking for a good home for his GL. I hadn't given the GL a great deal of thought, as I've always held the Pitts as the gold standard of biplanes.. Well, I went over and looked... and the more I looked, the more that airplane grew on me. Simple and elegant, it checked all the boxes for me: Open cockpit, classic good looks, and aerobatics at the "age appropriate" level; I no longer like to go into maneuvers where I think: "ohh, this is going to hurt". (Like the old Honda motorcycle ads of the '60's... you meet the nicest people at the Sportsman level).
So, one thing led to another, and after the customary inspections, negotiations, and good ole' hoss tradin', I made her mine.
The GL now shares the hangar floor with its new friends: the beloved 180, and another open-cockpit legend, the Morgan 3-Wheeler. It's a bit of a tight fit, but it will do while I do the expansion of the hangar for more space.
The stuff of real aviators has to do with walking beside the biplane, holding to the coaming with the left hand, and nudging the throttle with the right, as you guide it with your body to the field for takeoff. I am glad I don't have to do that with the GL!.
And, thanks to my lack of ability to correct the orientation of the pictures, I present them to the forum in perfect formation, nearly at the top of a hammerhead, and right before kicking left rudder.

Best,

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2020, 21:26 
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Joined: 10/19/08
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Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
Thank you, David: The GL is a lady through and through. While I miss the fire-breathing performance of the Pitts, I enjoy leisurely motoring up and down the valley in the Lakes; taking everything in, sights and even smells, where I had not seen it before. Specially good at dawn, and followed by a big cup of strong, black coffee after landing.

Regards,

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2020, 12:17 
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
I haven't been able to fly the Waco for a couple of months and was excited to get the chance this weekend. After a couple of months of inactivity it was covered in dust which doesn't affect the flying ability one bit but somehow does impact enjoyment. So, four hours over two days of washing, rubbing, polishing and it's back to where it should be. Getting a new hangar in a few weeks with much better sealing. Hopefully I don't have to do that again until next spring. Two and a half months of great biplane flying weather ahead!


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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2020, 19:13 
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Joined: 10/19/08
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Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
Beautiful Waco... Black Widow would be an appropriate name.


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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2020, 19:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
Beautiful Waco... Black Widow would be an appropriate name.


+100

That is a sexy beast!

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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2020, 20:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
Beautiful Waco... Black Widow would be an appropriate name.


+100

That is a sexy beast!


Thanks guys. I had nothing to do with it. My friend Barry Branin introduced me to Dave Allen, a retired dentist and master craftsman, who restored NC13571. He did a masterful job and the fabric finish is 27 coats of hand rubbed dope.

The plane was originally owned by British actor Brian Aherne. If you look him up here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Aherne

you'll see he had quite a life and career including being married to Joan Fontaine and being a founding member of AOPA. Aherne tells stories in his autobiography (photo of cover attached) of flying NC13571 to and from New York from California. There is a photo of him standing next to it's unique tail feathers which I've also attached a photo of.

Dave Allen was able to track down Aherne's grandson when covering the plane and determine the correct original colors and scheme which is pretty cool if you ask me!

You'll note in the photo caption that he is standing next to his Waco F3. That is also interesting inasmuch as very few F3's were ever built. The F2 (aka QCF) is a very well thought of airplane and the F3's immediate predecessory. Most people are familiar with the F5 which is the model Classic Waco's YMF5 is modeled on and the UPF7 which was the ultimate expression of the F series and overall the largest with wide gear (and used in the civilian CPT training program, along with Boeing's and a few others, to train pilots for WWII).

Anyway, the F3 seemed to have some difficulty in coming out of spins and so only 3 were built as I understand it. After that they added a larger vertical fin creating the F5 model and the F3's were all returned to the factory for retrofitting. Raymond H. Brandly has written a series of books about Waco aircraft (all of which I have in my collection) and in his definitive book on Waco history "Ask Any Pilot" he says "The new "F" for 1934 was designed with a fuselage approximately 26 inches longer than any previous "F" Model. Refinement of lines aand fairings, plus the use of larger engines made the new "F-3" Waco the fasted and most responsive "F" Model ever built. There were 36 1934 YMF and UMF 3's and 5's built at a "Price with Standard Equipment" of $6,530 to $6,795 which was a lot of money in 1934. My UMF is one of 3 flying I believe and the "U" refers to the engine which is a Continental 220 (the "Y" airplanes have a Jacobs 755 which originally had 245 horsepower compared to Continental's 220 hp.). Standard colors were Vermillion, Insignia Blue, Black or Grey fuselage and wings "or customer's choice".

Mr. Aherne chose black fuselage with the top of the top wing and the bottom of the bottom wing painted a deep red color with the unique checkerboard black and red tail. There are three contemporary photos of Waco F3 NC13571 on the National Waco Club's album page here: http://www.nationalwacoclub.com/f3f5album/. I've got a copy of a photo somewhere with Mr. Aherne standing in front of the plane, on it's nose, looking nonplussed.

When you sit in the rear cockpit of NC13571 you notice that the fuselage angle is much steeper than when you sit in a modern construction Waco Classic version. That's because Classic whacked 5 inches out of the height of the main gear and raised the tail wheel to make it easier to land. The older gear geometry is trickier in my experience and there is absolutely zero forward visibility. In fact you have to make significant "S" turns to see ahead.

The brakes on my plane are also original Hayes brakes from Model A cars and very tricky to adjust properly. They are also extremely sensitive and care must be used in taxiing. Brakes aren't used in landing if you want to stay upright. At least I can use my toes to brake with. The original airplane had a hand brake as part of the throttle. I have the original throttle (which is massive and a foot long with a ball on top the size of a racquetball) though and it requires more finesse, and fiddling, than it's modern counterpart. There isn't any doubt you're flying an antique airplane.

At the same time though the airframe is so well rigged that when in trim I can steer it by outstretching my arms and using my cupped hands like oars on a boat.

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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2020, 16:35 
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Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
Tony: That is a fascinating story. Your Waco is not only stunning in its rendition, but of a historical significance that many would love to have.

Best,

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Biplane Thread - Experiences, Tips, PIREPS, Pics and Vid
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2020, 16:48 
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Tony

She’s gorgeous!! What a pedigree too. All I can do is quote my bi plane mentor:
“ The simple rule we use on the runway is; AILERONS, PROPORTIONALY, OPPOSITE the rudder....always.”

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