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 Post subject: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 13:34 
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Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 2969
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Location: Michigan, PTK
Aircraft: 182RG
The January 2013 issue of "Aviation Consumer" magazine has arrived! There is a used aircraft guide every month, with a different featured model near the back of the publication. Lately, it seems, they feature models timely with a glut of good used versions on the market, or observed further softening prices. Yes, the V-Tail Bonanza was featured late during 2010, while the Baron, and Debonair/Bonanza were both featured during July, and August 2011, respectively. Perhaps that's why there was an uptick in the used market for those models. :duck:

This months featured "Used Aircraft" is the Piper Arrow. The article on page 24, January 2013, Aviation Consumer Magazine, begins like this:

"Piper Arrow
A sensible, well-behaved, moderate performer that never goes out of style.

It seems there’s always an Arrow on the ramp as well as a good selection of them on the used market. Flight schools have long sworn by them as relatively economical complex trainers, and owners report happy relationships with their combination of useful load and range. Through longevity and numbers, it may have replaced the Bonanza as the ubiquitous retractable single."

Read that again: ..."Through longevity and numbers, it may have replaced the Bonanza as the ubiquitous retractable single."...

Is this true? :bang:

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 13:43 
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Joined: 12/18/07
Posts: 21292
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Location: W Michigan
Aircraft: Ex PA22, P28R, V35B
It will be if people keep crashing their Bonanzas. :grr:

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 13:44 
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Joined: 08/09/08
Posts: 2197
Post Likes: +1255
Location: Downers Grove, IL (LL22)
Aircraft: Bonanza S35
Username Protected wrote:

Read that again: ..."Through longevity and numbers, it may have replaced the Bonanza as the ubiquitous retractable single."...

Is this true? :bang:


Hi Bob-

My experience on a trip last week seems typical to me. When I arrived at Fort Collins, CO last Wednesday, I was sharing the pattern with a King Air and a V35B. I heard several Bonanzas talking to ATC during the trip and I cannot remember hearing a single Arrow. I suppose someone conversant with FlightAware could generate some actual statistics to support or refute my anecdotal observation.

Regards,

Bob

_________________
Bob Siegfried, II
S35 - IO550
Brookeridge Airpark (LL22)
Downers Grove, IL


Last edited on 31 Dec 2012, 14:27, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 13:45 
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Joined: 12/12/07
Posts: 8085
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Company: Cutler-Smith, P.C.
Location: Dallas, TX (KADS)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Depends, ones supposes, upon your definition of "ubiquitous."

The aircraft serve substantially different roles, with neither being clearly superior than the other, in its respective role .

Arrow is a workhorse for complex training, is simple, reasonably stout and has a cheap to run and replace engine.

It is not so common to see Bonanzas used in a pure training role. It is also not that common to see Arrow's purchased as serious business travel machines, at least, not to the extent Bonanzas are.

Lastly, it is not as if there is a flood of Arrows rolling off the line at Vero Beach.

So, "ubiquitous"? Don't think so.

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PP, ASEL, Instrument Airplane, A&P
Texas Construction Law: http://www.TexasConstructionLaw.com


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 14:36 
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Joined: 08/09/08
Posts: 2197
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Location: Downers Grove, IL (LL22)
Aircraft: Bonanza S35
Hi again, Bob-

I pretty much agree with Spike; there may be a lot of Arrows out there serving their training mission, but in my mind that does not equate to replacing the Bonanza as the ubiquitous single-engine retractable. A quick check of FlightAware a few minutes ago yielded the following numbers of planes being tracked in the US:

BE33 - 4
BE35 - 10
BE36 - 20

P28R - 3
P28T - 1

Regards,

Bob

_________________
Bob Siegfried, II
S35 - IO550
Brookeridge Airpark (LL22)
Downers Grove, IL


Last edited on 31 Dec 2012, 14:55, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 14:40 
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Joined: 06/07/10
Posts: 8215
Post Likes: +7279
Location: Boise, ID (S78)
Aircraft: 1964 Bonanza S35
Username Protected wrote:
Piper Arrow
A sensible, well-behaved, moderate performer that never goes out of style.

The key to never going out of style is to not have any in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 14:44 
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Joined: 01/06/08
Posts: 6440
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Location: Pottstown, PA (KPTW)
Aircraft: 1965 Debonair C33
I used to fly a rented Arrow and now fly a Deb.

There is no comparison. The Arrow is a trainer. Then you graduate to something made for travelling.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 15:19 
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Joined: 12/18/07
Posts: 21292
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Location: W Michigan
Aircraft: Ex PA22, P28R, V35B
Username Protected wrote:
The key to never going out of style is to not have any in the first place.

Hey! I resemble that!
Attachment:
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Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 15:23 
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Joined: 02/09/08
Posts: 2651
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Aircraft: N35,CL65,CE750,CL30
Wow. I can't understand the Arrow being used for anything but training :duck:

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CFI ATP


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 15:24 
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Joined: 09/12/11
Posts: 4309
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Company: RPM Aircraft Service
Location: Gaithersburg MD KGAI
Aircraft: Mooney 201, A320
I like the owner's comments. One says he flies 135 KTAS and burns 10 GPH, which is "far more efficient and cheaper than a Mooney or Bonanza". Umm, a Bonanza gets the 13.5 NMPG and goes a heck of a lot faster (30-40 knots faster), a Mooney can get a 7.8 GPH FF at that speed, or burn 10 GPH and get 150-155 knots. Good thing that Arrow is more comfortable, because you have to sit in it longer to go the same distance. They are easier to fly, and insure, however.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 15:24 
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Joined: 09/12/11
Posts: 4309
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Company: RPM Aircraft Service
Location: Gaithersburg MD KGAI
Aircraft: Mooney 201, A320
Username Protected wrote:
Piper Arrow
A sensible, well-behaved, moderate performer that never goes out of style.

The key to never going out of style is to not have any in the first place.


:coffee:

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 16:48 
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Joined: 02/26/08
Posts: 3510
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Location: Dallas, TX (KADS)
Aircraft: 1964 Bonanza S35
Had an Arrow as my first plane... it was nice. put 500 hours on it in 23 months of ownership.
When I had further to go, I realized I was limited by what was available to do to an Arrow... I couldn't get more fuel, no tip tanks, nothing...
Surprise I'm in a Bonanza now.
Even thought the fuel flows look higher (and they are) the efficiency is in favor of the Bonanza. Many of the same trips I did then and now turn out being there quicker on the same fuel as I did in the Arrow.... and more comfort to boot.

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Chester Jurskis
I'm broke but not bored.
UAS ATP Pilot 1/24/18 ;)
ATP SEL 8/28/17
ATP MEL 6/15/16


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 18:07 
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Joined: 09/01/10
Posts: 420
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Company: Tarheel Aero Tech
Location: Concord, NC (JQF)
Aircraft: 2003 Bonanza A36
Greatest hazard flying the Arrow is dying of "old Age" while enroute.

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ATP, ASEL/ASES/AMEL, CFI, CFII, MEI, IGI, DPE(PE, CIRE, ATPE, FIE, FIEI)
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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 18:11 
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Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 13446
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Company: Stratz Farms
Location: Fond du Lac, WI & Spruce Creek, FL
Aircraft: 1992 Bonanza F33A
Username Protected wrote:
Hi again, Bob-

I pretty much agree with Spike; there may be a lot of Arrows out there serving their training mission, but in my mind that does not equate to replacing the Bonanza as the ubiquitous single-engine retractable. A quick check of FlightAware a few minutes ago yielded the following numbers of planes being tracked in the US:

BE33 - 4
BE35 - 10
BE36 - 20

P28R - 3
P28T - 1

Regards,

Bob


34-4 would considered an old fashioned butt whooping in any comparison test.

_________________
Greg Stratz
Stratz Farms
ABS Past President


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2012, 19:09 
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Joined: 01/28/11
Posts: 5431
Post Likes: +254
Location: Cherry Hill , NJ (N14)
Aircraft: 1964 Bonanza S35
You guys are discounting the Turbo Arrow , which is a totally different animal than the Arrow.....The Turbo Arrow is a nice aircraft , I would put it up there with a Bo , The regular Arrow , is a real piece of POOP !!!

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Another mans garbage ..... Is still garbage....


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