24 Oct 2025, 19:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Widow sues pilatus Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 08:21 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 14710 Post Likes: +4394 Location: St. Pete, FL
Aircraft: BE 58
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Username Protected wrote: Bobby, Amen... lay the blame to whose really at fault.
_________________ Larry
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Widow sues pilatus Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 09:20 |
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Joined: 10/27/10 Posts: 10790 Post Likes: +6893 Location: Cambridge, MA (KLWM)
Aircraft: 1997 A36TN
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IMO, and I've only read the summary report (which, like all NTSB findings, is unfortunately not admissible, IIRC), the failure to add anti-ice is a significant causal factor in the crash. If that can be shown to be negligence, and surely if it can be shown to be intentional, on the part of the pilot, I don't agree that this is "NOBODY's fault".
Failure to notice and correct the fuel imbalance, or land short of the destination, while also certainly something that only the pilot could have addressed, I don't feel nearly as strongly that that was intentional negligence. We've certainly all been internally pressured, whether or not we realize it, to complete a mission as planned, especially when it seems within the capability of the airplane.
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Post subject: Re: Widow sues pilatus Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 09:32 |
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Joined: 02/20/09 Posts: 624 Post Likes: +127 Location: Durham, NC
Aircraft: Piper Arrow II
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Montana is a comparative fault state. MCA § 27-1-702. The widow will have to show that her late husband, the pilot, was not more than 50% at fault for the crash if she is to recover anything. Russ Niles report is remarkably short on detail. The Billings Gazette has a little more detail. http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/pilot-s-wife-suing-airplane-company/article_fc0f8a3e-61f4-5445-9c29-43f3af761c93.html In any case, the NTSB factual findings are available to use as evidence for the defense in either a summary judgment motion (difficult to win) or at trial. I will be interested to see who the widow's expert witnesses are and how they refute the NTSB's findings. Should be an interesting case. Alan Bradley
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Post subject: Re: Widow sues pilatus Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 09:48 |
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Joined: 12/13/07 Posts: 20550 Post Likes: +10677 Location: Seeley Lake, MT (23S)
Aircraft: 1964 Bonanza S35
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Username Protected wrote: IMO, and I've only read the summary report (which, like all NTSB findings, is unfortunately not admissible, IIRC), the failure to add anti-ice is a significant causal factor in the crash. If that can be shown to be negligence, and surely if it can be shown to be intentional, on the part of the pilot, I don't agree that this is "NOBODY's fault".
Failure to notice and correct the fuel imbalance, or land short of the destination, while also certainly something that only the pilot could have addressed, I don't feel nearly as strongly that that was intentional negligence. We've certainly all been internally pressured, whether or not we realize it, to complete a mission as planned, especially when it seems within the capability of the airplane. I sat thru the NTSB briefing on the findings a couple weeks ago at the Montana Aviation Conference. He did not add the anti ice, the impression was for cost reasons. I disagree with your second part. He clearly knew about the fuel imbalance. We know from the onboard electronics that that is why he diverted. The fuel imbalance was so bad that what was really happening was he was running out of gas. He could only get gas from the right tank, all the excess gas was being returned to the left and none was feeding from that tank. We know that from the onboard electronics. We know that he knew of the requirement to land when the fuel imbalance reaches a certain point, 3 bars(maybe 4, I forget) and it cannot be rectified. At the time of the crash he had a 29 bar imbalance.(or what ever the most is) The plane had between 0 and 5 minutes of fuel remaining in the right tank and a full left tank. Pilatus had never flown the plane with more than half that much imbalance. As someone who knows little of those types of fuel systems the first thing to hit me was why isn't the fuel filter heated? No idea, seems simple enough. However as the pilot you know the limitations and consequences. You must land when an unfixable imbalance hits a certain point. He flew past 4-5 suitable airports before he decided to divert. All planes have limitations, you get into each one knowing what they are. I could understand a lawsuit when a new defect is discovered. This case should never get past the lawyers office when she walks in. Sorry lady, your husband screwed up.
_________________ Want to go here?: https://tinyurl.com/FlyMT1
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Post subject: Re: Widow sues pilatus Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 11:49 |
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Joined: 02/14/09 Posts: 6068 Post Likes: +3329 Company: tomdrew.lawyer Location: Des Moines, IA (KDSM)
Aircraft: 1973 Baron E55
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Username Protected wrote: I would guess that she is probably being sued by the other families, so she is trying to shift the blame.
Tim +1. I find it hard to believe that there is not some other legal action pending. Maybe a similar claim has already been filed by some of the passengers (against pilot/owner/Pilatus/Maintenance shop). She may just have her own claim for loss of consortium and she is going to piggy back on the evidence from the other case. Don't know, maybe someone can enlighten us with some factual information out that way. Don't know if Montana is a comparative fault state as it pertains to loss of consortium (if it is reduced by comparative fault of the deceased spouse). Up until fairly recently, in our state, consortium claims were not reduced by comparative fault.
_________________ C340A/8KCAB/T182T F33C/E55/B58 PA 28/32 Currency 12 M: IPC/BFR, CFII Renewal
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Post subject: Re: Widow sues pilatus Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 12:26 |
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Joined: 06/07/10 Posts: 8215 Post Likes: +7278 Location: Boise, ID (S78)
Aircraft: 1964 Bonanza S35
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Username Protected wrote: I was not aware that NTSB findings could be used in court. In fact, I thought they were specifically excluded from evidence. The Probable Cause report is excluded, but the Factual is admissible.
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Post subject: Re: Widow sues pilatus Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 12:42 |
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Joined: 06/07/10 Posts: 8215 Post Likes: +7278 Location: Boise, ID (S78)
Aircraft: 1964 Bonanza S35
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Username Protected wrote: I find it hard to believe that there is not some other legal action pending. Rumor has it that the passengers' survivors (or some of them) filed administrative claims against Solano County, CA, which runs the fuel service at Nut Tree Airport where the pilot failed to add Prist. Timely admin claims are required before a lawsuit can be filed against the County, but allegedly, these admin claims were not timely filed, so they may be out of luck. All of this is third-hand info, and may or may not be reliable.
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Post subject: Re: Widow sues pilatus Posted: 26 Mar 2012, 12:45 |
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Joined: 08/03/08 Posts: 16153 Post Likes: +8870 Location: 2W5
Aircraft: A36
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Username Protected wrote: I was not aware that NTSB findings could be used in court. In fact, I thought they were specifically excluded from evidence. The Probable Cause report is excluded, but the Factual is admissible.
A lot of the NTSB report relies on the work of the vehicle recorders lab. The information about the behaviour of the fuel filters and auxiliary fuel pumps, was gleaned from the readout of the annunciator panels memory chip. The readout of that memory chip was done by staff of the panel manufacturer under supervision of an investigator from the BFU (german NTSB equivalent). First thing the plaintiff is going to try is to get all this evidence excluded as it was obtained with the aid of the company being sued. Once you get past the annunciator panel evidence, you are free to make stuff up as to why the plane spontaneously fell out of the sky.
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