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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 07:22 
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P&W just layed off 400 workers in their engine plant in Montreal, I guess it must be all those engines that they were supposed to build for Eclipse and they never did.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 09:41 
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Using the Eclipse as an example of a VLJ is in-accurate. A VLJ should not only be light and inexpensive, but also inexpensive to operate.

Does it cost any less to operate an Eclipse than it does to operate a Premier 1? I say no.

A VLJ has got to be "single engine". It's got to be cheap to buy AND cheap to operate. Otherwise they'll get beat down by anything with a "prop".


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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 10:01 
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Username Protected wrote:
Nothing beats the economy of a prop Jason, that's the problem.


Agreed.

But nobody has build a single engine jet like the D-Jet. It won't be as efficient as my Bo but it will still be efficient for the speed and utility I'll be getting.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 10:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
Nothing beats the economy of a prop Jason, that's the problem.


Agreed.

But nobody has build a single engine jet like the D-Jet. It won't be as efficient as my Bo but it will still be efficient for the speed and utility I'll be getting.


Buy one of these! It will go just as fast have more room and will cost less to operate.

http://earthflight.com/TBM_850_44N_ORL.html

Russ

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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 10:36 
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Username Protected wrote:

Buy one of these! It will go just as fast have more room and will cost less to operate.

http://earthflight.com/TBM_850_44N_ORL.html

Russ


It's more than $1.8 million. Yes, I've looked at them a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 10:36 
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Username Protected wrote:

You got 3000 posts Jason, get a life !!! :hide:


Jeez. Glad you noticed.

I truly do need a life. Must stop talking about airplanes.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 11:28 
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Goyer's boss Mac McClellan has been saying this for 10 years. If you do the math and forget fantasies like a "national point-to-point air taxi service" it's not rocket science. Beech knows what it really costs to do a "mass market" jet; that's why they haven't tried.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 19:19 
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There is no free lunch, is there? I would be lying if I said I didn't want to believe Eclipse could pull it off but the truth is I wouldn't have bought one even if I could've afforded it. I thought the Eclipse was a gorgeous little airplane but, looking at the useful load, range and speed, I was amazed that you could do better on less $$$$ with a turboprop. None of the other concept VLJs are much better. If there's no corporate travel motive driving the market, the whole concept has to fail.

Sigh!

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 19:41 
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CJ's seem like a logical next step up. They're pretty inexpensive.

Any idea on operating costs?


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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 19:48 
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Not to add to your post count, but what's a CJ?

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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 21:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not to add to your post count, but what's a CJ?
A Cessna CitationJet.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 21:16 
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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 21:28 
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Seems to me that a $1MM 6 pax twinjet might indeed be "possible" but only if the production rate were very high, like 10-20 thousand per year. Given that the market for such a jet isn't likely to support more than a tiny fraction of that volume I'd say it's not "practical" and isn't likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 21:49 
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It would seem to me that the feasibility of VLJs is increasing with time. As I understand it the barrier costs lie in the unobtanium that is required to build the engines.

With the market downturn I would expect that metallurgy inspection equipment, foundry and forming technology, ore prices, unmaintained patents, etc. would be gravitating unobtanium prices closer to affordability for the public domain. What am I missing?

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 Post subject: Re: Is the VLJ dead? Better question: Is the VLJ even possible?
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2009, 00:23 
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Crickets.

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