What would that be David, a friend of mine who flies a C2 told me he wont fly when the ramp is icy for this reason on shutdown.

When it's icy I like to bring the condition back until the prop rpm is just above the yellow arc, then feather the prop early, and coast in very slowly. Bringing the condition back reduces quite a bit of the exhaust thrust, but you also need to turn the bleed air off when you do this because there is an outside chance of overtemping the engine with the bleed left on at a low condition setting.

I flew the TBM850 last year, with a factory instructor

http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/tbm850/index.html

It is an absolutely superb aircraft and if I had the money and the mission profile I would buy one immediately.

Factory support of TBM owners has always been very good. Socata make a lot of money on these airplanes and they look after the owners well - especially in the USA where if you fail to do that you soon get a call from the client's lawyer, and somebody with a TBM will not be using a cheap street corner one I know one U.S. TBM dealer well and have a very high regard for him.

I've visited the Socata (France) factory a number of times and the facilities, the level of tooling and the build quality are all impressive and on the same level as the best built light jets, etc.

The Socata piston airplanes were a different story, also well engineered but with all kinds of stupid political issues with Socata dealers in Europe, though seemingly again less so in the USA where the customers would not have accepted that. I own a TB20GT and have done since new in 2002, and I can understand where the comment above about the "love/hate" relationship with Socata is coming from, but I think it really relates to some practices which went on here in Europe where Socata was selling via some dealers who really should not have been selling airplanes but maybe used cars. I have a rather long article on my TB20 ownership here
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/tb2 ... index.html
but since Socata stopped making pistons c. 2002 this is mostly history. I guess the biggest issue was a constant war between Socata and some Socata dealers over warranty work reimbursement but the biggest dealer here (Air Touring) went bust a couple of years ago anyway, and not too many people were too sorry. After dealer problems in Australia, Socata finally abandoned the concept of dealers there and they now sell there direct. Today, Socata are a good company to deal with and especially U.S. owners should find the support excellent.

Parts availability is almost never a problem (I got a new vertical stabiliser, following hangar damage, in 3 days, for $6k) though some of the smaller parts prices will suprise US owners because e.g. metric fittings can be 10x the cost of the US NPT and similar ones. However, I would expect the same with a PC12 which is made in Switzerland. At the TBM850 $3.2M price bracket you are not going to worry that a hose costs $500 when your local hose shop could make up the "same" hose for a C172 for $60. I don't think these items translate to say a 100hr check costing significantly more than it would cost if the whole airplane was U.S. built and it is well less than a KA (I park in a hangar / maintenance company full of KAs).

My favourite comparison is that in the piston world you need to be able to write a cheque for $40k at any time. Obviously you hope you don't have to but that is the kind of funding capability which you need to have if operating a high-end piston IFR airplane. In the turboprop world, that figure rises to perhaps $400k. That's all

I know some people with Jetprops and that is a fine machine but underneath it it remains a Piper, with Piper build quality, and you can "bend" a PA46 if you are not careful in turbulence, whereas nobody has yet "bent" a TBM in the air.

I know Jason as been checking Jet A fuel prices lately so I tough I should do the same.

Every once in a while I come back to this tread and start crunshing numbers...

I can buy Jet A1 for about $1 cheaper per gallon del to my tank.

TBM, avg 54 gph x $4.50/gl / 275kts = $.88 / nm fuel cost.

B58, avg 32 gph x $5.50/gl / 185 kts = $.95 / nm fuel cost.

ok, im sure maintenance is more on the TBM but tough I should point this out.

Marc,

Maintenance is significantly more on the TBM...and insurance is much more as well (mostly due to hull value though). Owning a turbine is not for the faint of heart!

-Neal

Here's data and comparisons on the various TBM models. The direct operating is near the bottom of the chart @ $528.90 which doesn't include insurance, training, and surprises. The cost is also based on labor @ only $90.00/hr. and fuel @ only $5.00/gal.

I wouldn't want to own unless I was willing to budget $125,000-$150,000/yr. above aquisition and depreciation costs.

http://www.caijets.com/tbm_operating.php

I read the entire thread just for reading enjoyment as I am unlikely to ever have either an 850 or a C90A Blackhawk (I go back and forth) UNLESS I take up a life of crime.
I couldn’t agree more with Rick about wealth and freedom and a Bonanza is freedom at it purest.

BUT the line of the thread was about the TBM battery.
Let me see if I have this straight
1—I pay 3.3M for my personal flying machine
2---Trip to flight Safety
3---Hours of dual before my Bonanza insurance guy will take my 20/30K per year
4—I fly a trip with my 3.3M dollar toy and when I get back to my new HUGE high priced hanger I then pull my special wrench I carry for the job and disconnect my Battery----I don’t think so.
Frank

Frank,
I fly a C2.

1- a good low time C2 can be bought and retrofit with a G600/GTN750 for half this price.
2- My insurance do not ask me to do recurrent but I do Simcom anyway.
3- I flew the TBM 6 hours dual before I flew solo. Insurance as come down a lot from these numbers.
4- no wrench needed. The battery drain is no issue if you fly regularly. If I fly at least once a week I dont do anything. If I cant fly once a week I go in the hangar and plug in the trickle charger. FWIW it takes about 10 seconds to disconnect the battery but I dont bother, its not needed.
The TBM is a joy to fly.

The TBM is a very capable and mature airplane.
I rather like it, especially the 850 of course...

Marc---I knew most of that I was just having some fun and it struck me as funny the Factory answer was to unhook the battery.

If I could afford either a TBM or KA I would have it in my BIG hanger along with my Harman Rocket and my Staggerwing.

I am quite familar with gas turbines as I had a couple 'Jet" Drag Racing cars.
A Jet Dragster in the 70's with a Westinghouse J34/36 and a 'Jet Funny car with a Pratt 60 in the late 80's.
Most of the current cars are using the CJ610/J85's.(Early Lears before the fan Jet era)
I did my own motor work and built the simple Afterburner we used.
Even with that I never had any lust for a Jet as after 50 years i still love VFR at non ox levels the best.
Frank (V-Tails for everyone)

For all that money and you still can't look back and smile at the beauty of the machine like you can your Bonanza. Remember it was named one of the 100 most beautiful industrial objects ever made. So you have to keep your Bo as well as the turbine to be a hangar rat and rub on it all you want!