OK guys - don't need any guff on this, but I have a friend looking at a SR22 G2 with TKS, CMAX, EMAX, ETAWS, traffic, Avidyne, weather, etc...

What's the performance on these things?

He has a grown son, wife and bags and will take wife and 12 year old grandkids once in a while on vacation. Wants the ability to travel maximum 500 mile legs at a time. Going from NE Indiana to Fort Worth, TX back and forth 8-10 times per year.

Have not heard the useful load yet.

Anyone have experience X-Country with these? Speed/altitude/fuel burn/climb rate.

Not a turbo.

Todd,
Mine was an '04 G2 (not turbo), but without the TKS (which, they say, costs a couple knots of speed and a bit of useful load).

I flew it 250 hours, all over the country, almost always burned 12 - 12.5 gph, and it did about 170 TAS. Mine would carry 800 lbs with full tanks; I suspect the TKS will cost maybe 100 pounds of that (guessing).

Nice airplane. With all the avionics, there are some real deals to be had out there now.

Here was mine in the delivery bay in Duluth in the summer of '04:

Arlen,

JOOC, what made you leave the Cirrus and buy the Bo?

Simple: had a partner initially. He quit flying, and the $$ didn't fit.

BTW, I like flying the Debonair MORE than I did the Cirrus, but both are great airplanes.

Thanks Arlen,

I figured it would be faster. Was that LOP WOT? I thought I read somewhere that 185 was obtainable.

Yeah, we flew WOT LOP, usually in the 10-12K range. It went 182 TAS ROP.

I like the Bo also. I'm going to be giving this guy instruction and he eventually wants to go x-country as well, so he really does not want to buy another airplane after getting his instrument.

De-ice will be a must and trying to find a de-iced bo is tough and $. I also think for training the fixed gear might be a plus.

A SR22 G2 with TKS is not FIKI. The couple times I got a little ice on the Cirrus, it responded dramatically.

Yea, I know it is not FIKI, but it would buy some time to get out. The P210 I had was FIKI with boots, hot-prop and heated windshield and it would kill you in the ice as it would not climb. How is the climb in the Cirrus?

Please be careful flying a Cirrus with the inadvertent icing system in possible icing conditions. Regarding TKS on a Cirrus...I have a decent amount of icing experience (but will never have enough icing experience!) in a FIKI 58P I used to own, a FIKI TKS A-36 w/TN and a couple hundred hours in a Merlin IIIA with several icing encounters...I owned a turbo SR22 w/TKS and tried an "icing experiment" at 15,000' knowing I had warmer air and no clouds below 12,000' and tops at 17,000 (confirmed by me just a few minutes prior to entering the clouds), so a "band of clouds" from 12,000' to 17,000'...had TKS turned on for about 8 minutes (fluid flowing freely the entire length of the wings) before penetrating below freezing clouds at 15,000' with TKS set on "normal"...in about 3 minutes started to accumulate light rime with
several areas of the wing unable to keep up with the light rime so turned on TKS on "max" and the light ice in these areas were removed and wings were clean. Was indicating 152 knots before the light ice build up and KIAS dropped to 140 but did recover to about 146 KIAS after wing was again clean but unprotected wingtips and gear, etc. (guessing since you cannot see the gear) still had some light rime. However, about five minutes later started to pick up moderate rime and indicated airspeed went from 146 KIAS to 101 KIAS in 2 minutes with the TKS still on "max". Immediately descended to warmer air (no option to climb even though the Cirrus had the turbo...didn't know where stall speed would be) and to get clear of clouds to remove the ice as the TKS never was able to remove the moderate rime ice...warm air removed the ice with lots of "banging" of ice on the fuselage. Whereas the TKS on that beautiful "fat" A36 wing has handled moderate ice quite well with airspeeds dropping from 156 KIAS to 145 KIAS and with the TKS on "max" recovered to 154 KIAS...a drop of just 2 knots (no icing airmet by the way) vs. the SR22 losing 51 knots of indicated airspeed which was just plan scary!!! I suspect that Cirrus autopilot stalls in icing conditions with the fast loss of indicated airspeed would happen before the pilot noticed the airspeed drop. I did this experiment with the AP off.

Of course no one should take flying in icing conditions lightly (FIKI system or not as they all have limits) and I try to treat "ice on the wings" like a "fire in the cockpit"...do something about it NOW!!!...the same procedure required in the 135 Operating guidelines for the Twin Turbine Merlin I occasionally fly as co-pilot. The "fat" bonanza and baron
wing appears to help to divert some moisture above and below the wing (but of course larger water droplets do contact the wing) whereas by comparison every bit of moisture seems to hit the laminar flow Cirrus wing. If I remember correctly, Cirrus added a comment to the POH saying to slow down to 130 or 140 KIAS when in a possible icing conditions as the TKS fluid will separate from the wing at higher airspeeds...a reason why the TKS panels on a FIKI Cirrus have a larger radius that covers more of the wing area to help prevent this "separation". Even with the bigger TKS panels, I can't figure out how Cirrus achieved FIKI status after my Cirrus icing encounter but obviously the Feds were happy with the test results. Personally I think the best piece of equipment to fly IMC is an extra pair of underwear (to spend the night, have a nice dinner and wine and wait for better weather), and is the only way to fly a Cirrus when possible icing conditions exist...or most other piston airplanes, but definitely the Cirrus. Currently flying a "de-iced" 58 Baron and still carry that extra pair of underwear!

Please do not read this post and think I am cavalier about icing conditions...I certainly am not. Just wanted to experiment with the Cirrus wing when I had "outs" to see what it would do...and once again, no icing airmet existed for my area of flight.

Tom

Tom,

That is good information - thanks for sharing it. Unfortunately, if you do not fly in icing airmets you would not fly 70% of the time in Indiana from November to April. The Baron is a ice-killing machine. I had no problem with the 55 in moderate rime icing. It sounds like the Cirrus is a handful with ice.

Around here we are flatland mostly, so it is a little better, but the caution should be taken.

Does anyone have statistics on crashes suspected due to icing in a Cirrus?

Todd,

I flew about 25 hours with the guys from SATS Air (air taxi service that used SR 22s with TKS). Any icing in the forecast for those guys was a "no go" call. Every pilot I spoke with all said these birds didn't like ice.

Also, I would suggest your friend get a W&B spreadsheet for the cirrus and play around with it before he invest his money.

I'd also suggest hand flying an approach out of trim to see if your wrist can take it. A chance occurrence but if you lost the electric trim or had a runaway trim condition that's what you would be doing.

I flew a fully loaded '09 NA SR22 with TKS about 6 months ago. It was a nice preformer. It only had about 100 hours and, after our flight, they sold it for $375.00. Although it wasn't my favorite airplane, I thought it was a very good value and would serve very well as a X-Country flyer.

I've also heard the Cirrus gets goosey quickly with ice.

Two concerns:
1. price and availability of parts
2. insurance and required training

I'd make sure I was comfortable with the above before signing. The next owner had insurance issues and was herded into a Cirrus school at a hefty price.

Unless he's getting a lot of plane for $$$$ buying the Cirrus (which he probably is) why doesn't he just get a Bonanza?

My Cirrus experience was the same as Arlen.