Hi All,

As you know, my Debonair is for sale; 2 of my partners own other aircraft and the 3rd flies for AA so they have decided they want out. I use it, by far, more than anyone else so I totally understand.

I started my business this year (which is going very well) and I need an aircraft for 3 main reasons:

- Business transportation (most of my clients are at airports).
- Marketing (aircraft ownership and being an active aviator appeals to Chief Pilots and such).
- Family wagon from NorCal to SoCal once a month.

Because I'm starting the business I have a modest budget of approximately $50K for a replacement (I don't want debt). However, I CANNOT DECIDE WHAT TO DO. Here are my options, in order of likelihood right now:

1- C-182: simple, rugged, cheap to operate, family and luggage no problem. Will make the trip to LA 20 minutes longer.

2- Enter another partnership for a 36 or a 55. Easier said than done, partnerships require strong relationships and trust. They are hard to find.

3- Find a Bo or Deb to replace mine. The issue with this is that I honestly do not think a mechanically sound, squawk free, GPS'd and AP equipped one exists at this price level.

4- Rent.

You'll notice I have opted out of buying out my partners. There are 2 reasons for this; it's out of my budget and I want an AP with altitude hold. This is a hard decision because the plane has no squawks and honestly, I love how she flies.

SO, will the 182 be a mistake? what would you do?

Alejandro

Alejandro,

Boy, lots of choices... none of them really bad.

Here's a thought.... how much do you fly and would a partnership work well for you? If you could make it work, it will save you dollars, and hopefully keep you in a Beechcraft, that would probably operate less cost per mile and be faster than the 182. But, yes, a good partner is hard to find, perhaps two.... find the kind that doesn't fly <g>.

There's nothing wrong with a 182, but would be hard to go back to one for a permanent plane after years of Beechcraft.

I totally agree Larry. Since I have found no such partnership advertised I was thinking of waiting til the Deb sold and then sending letters to current 36/55 owners in my area (Mike Grommet's idea).

Beechcraft to Cessna would be hard indeed - no gear handle to proudly raise on TO

I'd consider a Comanche. It was designed for folks in exactly your position and is a fine airplane. In reality you won't be giving up any speed, it will carry more, and not have a CG issue. Best of all it can be had in the price range you want to stay within. It won't be a Beech, but then it isn't a Cessna either.

Interesting. The looks and landing gear system kept me from considering it but I should really fly one before passing judgment...

I've been looking for a C182 for my wife and daughter. There are not many real deals out there and likely you're not going to get one with a decent AP and avionics for 50K. Renting is probably not an option if you're flying for business.

With your Complex time you might be better off buying some block time from another Owner on the field until you get you're business rolling. One of the baby Beeches may be in your budget.

Back in my early days of flying, I hooked up with a broker that had a fair amount of planes on his ramp. I rented them from him, he made a little money, the planes got exercised. Down side is that I flew some junk.

If you are entertaining the idea of buying a comanche, flying one may have the opposite of the intended effect.

Do you have a good Bonanza guy near you? Because there are lots of N and prior Bonanza models which will run circles around that 182 and fit your budget. I happen to know of a very nice C model listed in Peddler's Talk, for example...

That said, the 182, in all seriousness, is a great plane. I don't think you'd be dissatisfied with it.

The baby Bo's are indeed becoming an option from this thread's trigger. If I can carry my family out of my 2600' runway with bags and a working AP that may be the way to go.

I do like the 182, I have 100 hours renting them. Having said that, Rick's post sounds like a little bit of reality...

Al,

I would look hard at PMC's Bo. I think it would do what you want.....

Jay

I am Jay, I was kind of shocked that it is not sold yet for that price. Like me Paul operates on reputation so I'm certain it is mechanically sound.

Paul has a nice bird. I've looked at the thread a number of times but I've got two, yes two student pilots soon to be low time pilots. Paul would never forgive me if I bought that bird and my girls had a gear up in in.

Alejandro,

I am happy to hear your business is growing, especially in these times...

I would recommend strongly for keeping the the Debonair. Find some way to make it work. It's a fine machine. Moreover, every aircraft purchase has both unexpected costs and downtime You know what is going on with this plane.

Each new to me aircraft that I've purchased has always needed thousands of dollars and much time to bring up to snuff. No matter how through the pre-buy, there's always something. Something you thought was nothing at pre-buy is something that has to be fixed before you get the family in the plane. Just the way it goes with 30, 40+ year old airframes.

Good luck,

--paul

Just a data point on (gasp!) renting: Advantage Aviation at KPAO has a 2008 182T that is fantastically well equipped and pretty damn fast up high. $250/hour: http://www.advantage-aviation.com/aircraft/6166Q

- 182s for 50k are for the most part pretty tired with either original cr@p cessna radios or some cheap digital replacement stuff. In that priceclass, the only AP tends to be the original cessna 'thing' with all its warts.

- A cherokee 235 can be had for less than a 182, goes about the same speed and carries 2pax, full fuel and a chevy small-block. If you can find one with a stec30 or 50 AP, you could mark off that part of your wants list. Flies like the box it came in but provides honest transportation value.

- A Comanche 250 or 260 will probably cost as much to operate as a Bo or Deb. The entrance price is maybe a bit lower for comparable engine times and avionics. Given the presence of 'heat' and 'mountains', the performance of a 180 would probably not excite you, with the little 4_cylinder Lycoming your direct operating cost is going to be considerably lower, All Comanches are now affected by the stabilator horn inspection AD, not a big deal but $1000 or so for the disassembly and inspection one time expense.

- Few nice Arrows on the market. 182 speed, less payload, simple gear. Most of the Arrows seem to have high hours and a prior life as trainers.

- 172s with the 180hp engine are just a notch below the 182s in price. A lot cheaper to operate, but of course, no comparison to a Bo in performance.

The cheapest plane with the most satisfaction is going to be to buy out your partners and to find one other guy through your business contacts who would make a good new partner.

Yup, agree.
In addition, trading down is never really satisfying in the long run.
I have a friend who has, in the last thirteen years that I have owned my 411A... has owned a pressurised Navajo, Ballanca, a Queen Air 65, a Myers 200, and now, a twin Comanche.
Lost money on each one except the last.
Not an especially nice way to enjoy flying.