19 Apr 2024, 01:02 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 09:12 |
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Joined: 11/26/07 Posts: 3515 Post Likes: +2550 Company: BeechTalk Location: KJWN
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Oh that is not good news indeed. I fear they may be the first in a long line, sadly.
Btw Yves, I hope you don't mind but I editted your topic title a bit because the previous wording implied a mooney airplane crash, which isn't what you intended apparently. Either way, sad news for sure.
_________________ CE-510 type, ATP Helicopter, BE90 recurrent, CE500 SPE, Baron 58 IPC, R22/R44 flight reviews
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 11:31 |
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Joined: 02/14/08 Posts: 3160 Post Likes: +2660 Location: KGBR
Aircraft: D50
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I test flew an Acclaim recently, first time in a Mooney. Finish was very nice, but the plane was claustrophobic as all get out. I had high hopes for the experience, and was very disappointed. My wife would hate it! It really has only two positive attributes, slick finish and speed, everything else is second rate.
Then I flew a Saratoga TC, and was very impressed with the room and comfort. I felt like a 70's Impala, very relaxing feeling, but cheap and plasticky interior. Wife probably would like it.
Then I finally flew my first Bonanza. Done. Finished. Search is over. The plane is in a different league. My wife would feel like a princess in the back. The Bonanza is like a brand new top of the line Cadillac from the forties, with all the modern amenities. It's made the way we used to make things in this country -- with excellence. I really can't think of any other American made product that feels so beautifully made anymore.
I want to test a Matrix at some point, but Jason's plane is what I want.
You can't dismiss Cessna - the have some planes that no-one else can touch -- on the high end.
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 11:46 |
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Joined: 06/25/08 Posts: 5644 Post Likes: +519 Company: Latitude Aviation Location: Los Angeles, CA (KTOA)
Aircraft: 2007 Bonanza G36
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Username Protected wrote: I test flew an Acclaim recently, first time in a Mooney. Finish was very nice, but the plane was claustrophobic as all get out. I had high hopes for the experience, and was very disappointed. My wife would hate it! It really has only two positive attributes, slick finish and speed, everything else is second rate.
Then I flew a Saratoga TC, and was very impressed with the room and comfort. I felt like a 70's Impala, very relaxing feeling, but cheap and plasticky interior. Wife probably would like it.
Then I finally flew my first Bonanza. Done. Finished. Search is over. The plane is in a different league. My wife would feel like a princess in the back. The Bonanza is like a brand new top of the line Cadillac from the forties, with all the modern amenities. It's made the way we used to make things in this country -- with excellence. I really can't think of any other American made product that feels so beautifully made anymore.
I want to test a Matrix at some point, but Jason's plane is what I want.
You can't dismiss Cessna - the have some planes that no-one else can touch -- on the high end. Tod, where in the city are you? I'm on 62nd and 2nd. Do you fly out of HPN? I agree with you on your assessment as I've also flown all of the above in your post. You really won't find a better compromise than a Bonanza if you want 6 seats (and room). The Cirrus is also an incredible airplane but for different reasons (and if I support Cirrus too much on here I start getting yelled at so I'll keep my mouth shut for now). The Matrix, however, has substantially more room and definitely a different feel when flying it (very very stable but not nearly as sweet a flying plane as the Bo). I have a decent amount of time in one and I just think it is a different airplane with different mission than a Bonanza. -Neal
_________________ Latitude Aviation Specializing in sales/acquisitions services for Bonanzas, Barons, and TBM's
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 12:05 |
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Joined: 02/14/08 Posts: 3160 Post Likes: +2660 Location: KGBR
Aircraft: D50
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I keep my Diamond Da40 out at N07, Lincoln Park NJ. They just built some new hangars. I did my test flying in SoCal, where I go often for business, and it's always easy to sked demos and the weather always cooperates.
I wanted to eventually buy a plane to replace my frequent coast to coast business trips, but I don't really think that'll ever make much sense. I have flown my Diamond from NY to LA and back about six or eight times. I'd do it more in Bo, but I would still mostly have to go commercial.
I fly often to Fishers Island, NY, Bellaire MI, and maybe soon to the Savannah GA area. All great GA trips.
I live on Bank and Greenwich Ave, downtown, so going out the Lincoln tunnel is pretty easy.
I used to base at Caldwell, but no hangars there. It's a good airport though.
I'm 6'5", 210 lbs. and I definitely was more comfortable in a Bo than a Mooney. The Toga was the roomiest though. I wear my Diamond like a wing-suit.
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 13:42 |
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Joined: 01/07/08 Posts: 114 Post Likes: +13 Location: Lafayette, LA
Aircraft: Baron B55
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Some good thoughts being expressed here. I've owned a C model and an F (the Executive) which I flew all over. I really liked them, but they are, in reality, a bit on the slow side, especially by today's standards.
And the stuff about manly names is truer than one would think.... I was forever trying to pronounce "Mooney" clearly and explain what it was. I never have to do that when I say, "Beechcraft Baron". I've long thought that the name "Mooney" was one of the worst marketing hurdles they could ever have to overcome.
Then, that thing about size? I'm about 6' and 200 pounds, and I would get uncomfortable on long trips. I'd end up with one leg on each side of the console on long easy flights. No one in the Mooney fraternity was really willing to face this issue. They would fight anyone who ever dared bring it up, saying it had the same cabin width as a Bonanza. Hogwash. When I got back into a Bo after many years of Mooney flying, I was floored at all the room. The Mooney faithful were citing the only dimension they could find that was close. The rest was plain old snug.
Nonetheless, there are some pretty neat things. They are stable as a rock and fly very well in turbulence. They make a good "IFR platform" as folks like to say. They will climb high. I took my F model to 17,000 several times, and if felt fine. Some of the Mooney Listers went to 21,000 in older 180 horsepower C models. Yeah, they probably had some help from the Front Range, but they claimed to have eventually gotten there, and it's believable to someone who has flown that wing a pretty good bit.
The new models with the longer fuselage have significant issues with tail strikes and prop strikes. Fact is, they just got too long. Many say the turbo'd 252 (later K model) is the best one, and I can see myself flying one of those if I ever went back to a single.
But, I'm now flying a Baron. No real reason to change, huh?
All that said, and all of the perceptive things you guys have said notwithstanding, someone will buy it and try again. They always do. Think about the Tiger, Commander, even the Waco, Luscombe, and numerous repeat attempts to rekindle something left of the flame that once was.
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 17:28 |
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Joined: 05/22/08 Posts: 161 Post Likes: +2 Location: KMMU / Hoboken, NJ
Aircraft: Bonanza A36 ('81)
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Username Protected wrote: I used to base at Caldwell, but no hangars there. It's a good airport though. Actually, CDW is just finishing building some hangars. Seems like 9 is the magic number though. You had to be on the list for the last nine years to get one and they are going for $900+ per month! I have an A36 out of MMU. I would be glad to trade a Bo flight for a Diamond flight any day.
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 21:51 |
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Joined: 01/07/08 Posts: 114 Post Likes: +13 Location: Lafayette, LA
Aircraft: Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: If they go down, this is the 5th time in their history ? Perhaps the Second 3rd time will be the charm. I hope they make it somehow... I've been wanting to go and tour the factory since I moved to Tejas.
There is some truly ancient equipment in there. One massive old press that they told me they keep because they use it so seldom, and replacing it would be expensive. Lots of hand work on jigs, billions of small parts that are individually created and riveted together, almost nothing is outsourced. There are steel shelves with stuff on them that looks like it's been sitting undisturbed for decades, and probably has. It's something out of another century (well, ok, ok, the 20th century, I know.... but you get the idea).
I hope it survives, too, but I don't think it is likely without a serious redo of the entire airplane, and maybe a Plastic Mooney.
Then there's that other thing.... For many years there were 3 major players and a few lesser lights. The market can only handle so many manufacturers, and the market is getting smaller. Now, there is at least one new major player, Cirrus, and quite a few runners up trying to squeeze out a few sales, too. I suspect Mooney will be shoved further down the totem pole and without a dramatic re-entrance with a completely new airplane, they are going to have a lessened appeal to a smaller market. It's going to be tough. But someone will try.
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 23:21 |
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Joined: 08/15/08 Posts: 140 Post Likes: +2 Location: Kaukauna, Wisconsin
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The only way for Mooney to come back is with an infusion of capital (to develop new models, update production methods, etc . . . it all takes lots of money). In the current economic climate, I don't see how that could happen.
_________________ Marty Detloff 1964 S-35
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Post subject: Re: The Mooney website is down... Posted: 21 Jan 2009, 23:31 |
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Joined: 02/14/08 Posts: 3160 Post Likes: +2660 Location: KGBR
Aircraft: D50
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It'd help if the FAA cert. process made more sense. This the NUMBER ONE drag on GA, and AOPA and nobody talks about it.
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