I just a got a builders policy put on the kitfox I'm building with my normal broker who I use for my a36. Out of curiosity I asked her to ballpark me a quote for Hull/Liability with me as the named pilot only. I've got over 1600hrs and IFR rated, currently no tailwheel time but told her to figure I'd have 20 to 30 hours by then. Hull value of $170K. She told me ballpark, $5 to $10k and probably closer to the high number. I literally spit the water I was drinking onto my phone when I saw that number. They've always gotten me fantastic pricing on my Bonanza (I compare it with other guys and have had a couple switch to mine) but that number just seems insane. She said it probably wouldn't come down until I got close to 200hrs.

What are you guys doing if you're like me and have basically zero tail wheel time. Self insuring?

I went with something similar when I bought a RV-8. I would check with Jenny at Gallagher Insurance in St. Louis (877-475-5860). They insure a lot of tailwheel experimental aircraft.

Good luck!
John

Gallagher is who I was talking with and got those numbers. Again they are ballpark as we won't be flying until next year.

Buy a cheap taildragger (Taylorcraft, champ, luscombe) for 20k or so; fly the heck out of it. Just do liability coverage. Try to get to at least 100 hrs tailwheel, 250 even better. A good agent can give you more details about rates and breakpoints. Get a partner with similar needs and cut your fixed expenses in half.

Starting out with no time in an expensive experimental tailwheel plane and asking for hull coverage is pretty hard. especially if you answer the “will you land this plane on anything but a public airport” honestly.

Since you’re building it, you might want to consider no hull coverage.

- if you don’t bend it, you save a ton of money.
- if you bend it a little, you can probably fix it for what you pay in hull coverage for 2-3 years
- if you bend it big time, you probably have bigger problems than money
- whatever happens, you own the plane or what’s left of it. Insurance companies make a lot of money parting out good engines, props, etc.

Good luck. Buy that nice Luscombe 8A on Barnstormers and go fly

That may actually be the cheaper route to go Wayne. Though the risk is the engine craters on me and I'm doing a full overhaul and now it's really costing me money.

True, but those little A65 engines are pretty tough and plenty of mechanics can do a good assessment of their airworthiness in a pre buy.

No guarantees, though.

Watch out for old mags. That can be pricey.

First, that's about what I would expect for first year coverage on a Kitfox with an inexperienced tailwheel pilot. For comparison, I have 800 hours tailwheel and 130 in type, and renewed the RV-7 for $1600 (maybe $1800) for $150k hull. It does come down, but a Kitfox will always be higher than an RV.

If you want to go the route of gaining some TW experience first, which is a great idea if you're going to do Phase 1 yourself, why get a Luscombe? Get a Kitfox! You'll be building Time in Type, not just TW time. When the plans get confusing, you'll have a completed model to look at. And when you're flying Phase 1, you'll have a lot better idea of what to expect. A lot of minor niggles will come up: Do they all do that? Is that supposed to happen? Do all Rotaxes sound like that?

Or maybe (hate to say) you'll get a Kitfox and conclude it isn't what you'd hoped. Then you could sell your project before you've put too much of your heart into it.

I just talked to another guy on the kitfox forum. He had 6,000 hrs and an ATP and no tail wheel time and it was the same experience for him as well. He just went uninsured for the first 40 hours. We'll see what my risk tolerance feels like but that maybe an option.

Stuart: I've got a friend (CFI) with a citabria so that's what I'll be building sometime as I do want to do the Phase 1 myself. To build the whole thing and not be the first to fly it just seems wrong to me. No worries on the kitfox not being what we want. I've flown one from the right seat and loved it.

Because Luscombes are cheap and easy to insure. Buying a 912 powered Kitfox will be a lot more money, and he’s back in the same insurance problem. I had 10 hours tailwheel when I bought my first J3. 10 hours dual required and full insurance including a $26k hull was about $1200 if I remember right. Liability only would have been a few hundred.

Besides, the Luscombe will be a little more of a challenge than a kitfox. Good to build good habits from the start.

I have a Just Highlander, so a very similar plane with Kitfox heritage. I purchased my plane in a tricycle configuration but always planned to switch it around to a taildragger. I flew it for a couple of hundred hours as a tricycle and then made the switch. My premium for the tricycle configuration was $1,150 and it jumped to $2,550 as a taildragger. The important thing to note is that my total tailwheel time was under 15 hours when I made the switch so I felt the premium increase was more than reasonable.

The insurance pros can opine, but my guess is that my time in type being 200 hours is what made the difference and I wonder if the underwriting models are built for planes that can be tricycle gear one day and a taildragger the next.

Not sure if this is helpful for the OP or not, but maybe a creative datapoint for others who have planes that can be switched easily between landing gear types.

Just got a quote at Oshkosh, my home built tail wheel plane that I have 35 hours in was almost $2000 for $15,000 hull, libilty alone was $1400……

Tell them you want to put the plane on amphibious floats instead. That will make you feel better about the tailwheel number.

Avemco is sometimes very competitive on "non traditional" aircraft. Antiques, experimentals, etc... I have an old biplane, and the underwriter that covers my other planes won't even insure it. Avemco will, and the rate is pretty reasonable.

I'm assuming you meant $150,000 hull? If so who was the quote from?

First thing I would mention is to find a broker who is knowledgeable with the aircraft. When I started flying my Velocity, I used the same broker who got coverage for my Cessna. After a couple of years, I found a broker who has been used by a lot of Velocity owners. Got a much better premium.

Next, I played with the hull value. I originally insured at what I felt it would cost to replace the airplane. By under-insuring just a little, I could cut the premium quite a bit.

Finally, I cranked up the deductible. Since any repairs would be done by me, it would be pretty major damage before I hit it anyway.

Bottom line is E/AB's aren't cheap to insure anyway. Add in low time in the aircraft if it has a specific characteristic (tailwheel or fast landing speed like the Velocity) and you're looking at an eye watering premium.

insurance won't cover that anyway, unless you mean damaged in the act of crashing the plane

anyway, I don't know anyone in your situation who has hull coverage, all liability-only. Reasoning is, if you built it once, you can build it again