Any guesstimates on the approximate value of a Cessna O-2A? Spar cap AD recently complied with, 1990s vintage avionics, ADS-B out, IFR equipped and maintained. Downside: both engines beyond TBO by a few hundred hours. Senior leadership wants an estimated value before they approve engine overhauls.

Thanks,
Greg

There is a great thread on skymasters somewhere on Beechtalk. One commented that flying a 337 is akin to putting a bucket on your head and having kids beat the bucket with sticks. My guess is that the consensus is that 337’s are expensive and difficult to maintain relative to their performance and utility. Therefore they are not worth much.

I have always thought that they look pretty cool.

I know this rambling doesn’t help, but cheap airframes are usually cheap for a reason.

Putting $150,000+ into an O-2 for engines and other 20 year type maintenance (radios, interior, paint) isn’t going to pencil out.

Given engines and radios, the right question to ask is, “what aircraft suits our mission going forward?” Then buy it. Or if the true answer is still O-2, send it to the shop and get everything up to par again regardless of the sale value because in that case you are keeping it.

A little context: this is a working bird, not a warbird or personal aircraft. It fits our mission well (flight testing of radar and EW systems). The question my leadership is asking is whether it’s worthwhile to invest $100K+ or to sell the aircraft as is and outsource the mission. The current value of the aircraft is one of the data points needed to support the decision process.

Thanks,
Greg

How much does it cost to outsource?

A little context: this is a working bird, not a warbird or personal aircraft. It fits our mission well (flight testing of radar and EW systems). The question my leadership is asking is whether it’s worthwhile to invest $100K+ or to sell the aircraft as is and outsource the mission. The current value of the aircraft is one of the data points needed to support the decision process.

Thanks,
Greg

The O-2s are often worth more than the 337s, but values are all over the place depending on if it's a working bird or an accurate warbird restoration. Working birds are cheaper - in the $150k range with fresh engines. Is there a reason you need the O-2 and not the 337? There are a few small differences. O-2s have wing hardpoints, no spinners, 700 lbs more GW, different seating, and more glass for observation. There are no pressurized or turbo O-2s.

I would call Bill Crews and get his opinion. 864-621-1132

If you don't have a lot of equipment installed on your airframe, sell it and buy a 337 with lower time engines. You'll be farther ahead.

I have an O-2 right hand observer's door if you need one.

I’ll ask the rhetorical question, but wouldn’t the cost of overhaul simply be factored into the cost of doing the business?

Within some reasonable factor, you’re paying for them one way or the other (either to the engine shop or loss at resale).

Additionally, do both engines NEED overhauls? Can you do one soon and one down the road?

I flew or flew in quite a few models when I worked at Cessna, but never a 337. The employees flying club never had one.

Well, in the late 90s/early 2000s there was a lady that had a P337 painted in USAF like scheme, but glossy that showed up to warbird events as "she had an O-2." Yes, it had spinners.

Most people just shook their heads and moved on.

I would feel the same way about an RV-8 with invasion stripes in P-51 markings. Everyone knows it's not the real deal, but if it makes you happy - why should I care? Have fun flying!

My thanks to all of you for your insights and questions. I can't answer all the questions completely due to the proprietary nature of business costs, but I can provide some more context. I "inherited" management of this aircraft from another employee who has since left the company. The previous manager was not experienced in the operation/maintenance of complex aircraft. I had a significant mess to clean up when I started managing the aircraft. It is now airworthy and legal to operate. We have a solid cost model for the operation.

- I do know the cost to outsource the flight test mission. We had to do that when our aircraft was down for structural maintenance. The outsource cost is several times the hourly cost for us to operate the aircraft.

- We do need the O-2 for our mission. We use the hardpoints on the wings to mount external pods. A regular 337 won't do. Other aircraft with hardpoints are either much more expensive to own/operate or can only be operated in the experimental category.

- The overhaul costs are factored into our operating budget. Like most operators, we factor normal maintenance and overhaul reserves into the hourly cost we charge back to programs/projects/products.

- The engines are well past both recommended overhaul (hourly) times and calendar limitations. If we had operated the aircraft since the last overhauls and had performed preventative maintenance and monitoring, I would be more comfortable in pushing out the overhauls. Since we don't have the complete history/experience with the aircraft, I'd like to have the engine overhauls completed in a timely manner.

Thanks again for all the insight. This place is a wealth of information!

Greg

There is an STC for hardpoints on the 337 (SA03357AT). If Owen Bell is still the STC holder, I highly recommend you execute due diligence before giving him your plane. He will not allow anyone else to install his STCs.

Crankshafts for some of those engines are coming hard to find!

Grapevine told me Western Skyways is searching hard. Maybe give them a call about the issue.

It sounds like the O-2 meets company performance needs. You need hard points, so the alternative replacement aircraft could be difficult and/or expensive to obtain. You've said outsourcing is more expensive per hour, but there are benefits to that (no dealing with maintenance/AOG issues, pilot scheduling, etc.)

Unless you'd prefer to outsource to remove a potential complication and risk, it sure sounds like an overhaul of the airplane that can absolutely do the job is the straightforward response. You clearly have a maintenance crew that can keep it running and legal.

Doubly so if you can divide another [3000+ hours/number of hours it flies per year] yields a longer life than you intend to be gainfully employed.

What is your top choice for replacement, if you choose to keep doing this work in-house? And are you looking for easier to manage (contract) or known performance value (your airplane)?

I know this isn't the output you were asking for, but I figure it's worth noting that you seem to have a known value and good performance, while the alternative is a higher-cost unknown.